Re: [Libreoffice] Installing beta versions replacing stable versions

Hi NoOp,

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 18:43 -0700, NoOp wrote:
> "I'm not a developer, but I consider my self to be an above-average
> user/tester with exeperience in installing, bug reporting et al on OOo
> and more recently LO. I can/do install test versions on everything from
> linux to Win (2K, XP, and Wn7) in both standard native partitions &
> Virtual Machines. I think that Cor Nouows will attest to that."

        Well - testing is most useful; of course, and we value that. However -
I just gave you a lot more information on how to help debug this issue
in more detail: and - it seems you bailed out on doing the research, and
helping to provide enough information to (easily) fix it.

> The "most basic console output" tells you, and other devs, exactly what
> the issues are. If someone building LO Beta releases can't figure out
> the issue from there then I'm pretty much at a loss.

        Sure - it is not a matter of ability, simply one of time. It is also an
interesting opportunity for you to contribute something more than a
simple bug reports: FWIW, we have no shortage of bug reports :-) It is
also a way for us to judge your aptitude, and the effectiveness of your
contribution.

> Going back to the OP and the premise of providing LO Beta/RC as
> "Installing beta versions replacing stable versions" packages: you
> already know the answer to this - it's been done on OOo versions for a
> very long time. Are you telling the users on this thread that you a
> uaware of the ooo-dev builds and how they are/were accomplished?

        Sure - they were for the most part built in a proprietary build
environment by a very small number of Hamburg release engineers, AFAIR -
though, to be honest I have so little interest in that magic process
that I have no idea of the state of it these days :-)

        It may surprise you to learn that, while I have hacked on -lots- of
diverse pieces of LibreOffice (and much else), that I simply cannot
remember everything: so I have to research, and re-learn each piece I
turn to that needs fixing.

        This takes time; sometimes lots of time. If it requires going near
Windows - it is a nightmare; apparently (from the rest of the thread)
this 'oodev' build which is supposedly so easy - simply fails to build,
even on more manageable platforms.

        I snip the more colourfully unpleasant language, and baseless
accusations from your mail. It seems amazing to you that I ask you to do
some more digging into a bug which you view as incredibly important - in
order to help fix it. This is a shame - I spent some time writing notes
to you on how to do that.

        By immoderately criticising the product (which developers identify
quite strongly with), you will make the developers very unhappy. As such
- they will react really badly; this should not be surprising.
Furthermore, to noisily point at bugs which you view as mind-blowingly
serious, while not being willing to help out by providing enough
information to make fixing them trivial is a curious combination.

> tml <quote>

        Yes, Tor is quite floral in his critique :-) On the other hand,
hopefully, by reading, and considering his response, it is easy to see
how your E-mails can be interpreted as personal attacks, and adapt your
style such that they are not seen that way. Substantially this is a
matter of style, not substance.

        The fact that he shows you how he feels when he receives your mail at
least shows that he is still reading it - which IMHO is a good sign
given the content :-)

        So - I'd encourage you to re-consider, and get really stuck into the
team working on improving things - I'd also like to encourage you to
treat those carrying a lot of the burden & doing a lot of the work (like
Tor) with unusual respect - it makes them happy again :-)

        ATB,

                Michael.

-- 
 michael.meeks@novell.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot