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Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX

Christoph Noack wrote on 06-09-15 15:00:

> Am Montag, den 31.08.2015, 23:36 +0200 schrieb Cor Nouws:
>> Christoph Noack wrote on 20-08-15 15:39:

>>>> Then, things like tdf#92676
>>>> (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92676)
>>>> happen --
>>>> user goes to printer settings, sets something up, saves and
>>>> thinks
>>>> this is how his document's going to be printed, but it ain't the
>>>> case, because the document/page settings will be used instead.
>> As far as I am aware, the most problems by far are indeed with the
>> experienced conflict between Page style (size/orientation) and
>> Printer settings.
>>>> There's of course this "use only paper * from printer
>>>> preferences" checkbox that makes it possible to override
>>>> document settings with printer settings, but how many
>>>> users know about it?
>> So, ugly UX hack (sorry for even daring to suggest ;) ):
>> In the File > Print dialog, on the first Tab (General) add below the
>> list Printer en > details, a button: "..printer settings in stead of
>> document/page settings" leading to the fourth tab (Options)
>> This
>> - shows where to find the desired behavior (well, not really - see
>> Christophs remark below)
>> - indicates that there are document/page settings.
>> Then
>> - on the fourth tab (Options) ad a button: "learn more on page
>> settings and influence on printing) or something like that.
>> I know, I'll burn in hell for this ugly suggestion, but... it
>> directly shows what is needed to solve majority of printing
>> problems.
> Well, at least on my computer (LiBO Fedora), the "use printer
> settings" changes the printer's page orientation, but it keeps the
> document page orientation. Thus, the layout gets messed up.

Indeed, that is the central problem is most cases where people have
trouble. And IMO it can only be solved by pointing people to that fact
and showing ways to resolve it right.
Hence my suggestion to have a link/button on the first tab of the
dialog, that jumps to the Options tab and gives warning/info.
(One could think of resolving this by starting messing the properties of
the page style, when someone choses a different orientation. But I think
you open the box of pandora then..)

> The rest of the suggestions can help if people are willing to spend
> time on understanding how printing works - but I assume most people do
> expect that printing should "just work".

In certain cases it simply does not 'just work'.

> expect that printing should "just work". Hence the proposals (below) to
> connect the settings in the different locations in LibO.
>>> [...] (remove file > Printer Settings and integrate in Format > Page)
>> Would be fine for me.
>> Mind this allows (via page styles) directing different pages of one
>> file to different printers :)
> Oh! I was rather thinking about selecting "the printer" for the
> document and thus the different trays of this single printer.

One can set "the printer" in each page style of the active document. A
bit conflicting?. But it can be added "set printer (for all page styles)"

> Interesting new use case (just kidding *g*).
>>> * If possible, remove "File -- Print Preview...". Move required
>>> functionality (e.g. display facing pages) to the print preview
>>> in the print dialog.
>> Apart from missing details because the view is small, it totally
>> misses the options that File > Print preview for Calc.
>> So this is not going to work from that side.
>> (Possibly there are also performance differences: current preview in
>> File > Print <> File > Print Preview ?)
> Since we now have all the GUI magic (layout manager), it should be
> possible to solve the "view is too small" issue by enlarging the view
> and optimizing the layout of the remaining dialog.
> Regarding the missing details - that was meant by "move required
> functionality" to the print dialog.

I did read that, but I guess it won't work for Calc. Try..

> What helps all the stuff in the
> Print Preview, if (in many cases) the screen view won't match the
> printed page?

Now Printe preview is really helpful with calc. But if 600 px or so are
needed for the print dialog, we have a problem. That you can solve by
hiding that part and ...
But the Print preview in Calc is used often without direct need for
printing. Just to see and adjust the lay out. And to prepare Export to PDF.

>>> [about changing page orrientation in print dialog]
>>> Per default, this setting is valid for the given print dialog
>>> session only. Per user demand, the setting can be applied to
>>> the document settings (image something like a "make setting
>>> sticky" appearing after the user changed the default selection).
>> I would not support this.
>> It may cause unexpected problems in the document.
> Why? I shouldn't be the default. If applied, it is nothing different
> than (batch-)changing the page orientation in "Format -- Page".

What if there are more page styles, and people do need to check margins
and more settings? Then they are lost since they do not work on the
proper place in the file: Format Page..

So I prefer to focus on education / directing users to the proper
knowledge, place, rather then adding hacks that make the work flow and
places to set stuff (see the phases 1-5 in my previous mail) even more
look like spagetti. Just my 2#..


Cor Nouws
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXCor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXJean-Francois Nifenecker <jean-francois.nifenecker@laposte.net>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXCor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
[libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXKatarina Behrens <Katarina.Behrens@cib.de>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXJay Philips <ypharis@gmail.com>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXMichel RENON <renon@mr-consultant.net>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXHeiko Tietze <heiko.tietze@user-prompt.com>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXThorsten Behrens <thb@documentfoundation.org>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UX"Heiko Tietze" <heiko.tietze@user-prompt.com>
RE: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXKatarina Behrens <Katarina.Behrens@cib.de>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXChristoph Noack <christoph@dogmatux.com>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXCor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
Re: [libreoffice-design] Improving printing UXChristoph Noack <christoph@dogmatux.com>
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