Re: [libreoffice-design] UX -> question on a new dialog

Hi Sophie!

Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 17:37 +0300 schrieb Sophie Gautier:
> Hi all, Christoph,
>
> I don't know if I should post here the question/concern I have about a 
> new dialog appeared in LibO in beta2 or 3 (can't remember), but at 
> least, I know you're there Christoph ;-)

So hiding doesn't make any sense, or? But however, I think anybody on
this list is eager to hear questions... :-)

> Under the Writer Format menu, there is a new dialog named Title Page. 

Ouch! I didn't even knew that something like this has been added ...

I know that (since ages) people do have problems how to add "different
pages" (e.g. a different first page), and the solution is challenging
(considering our non-workflow driven application menu).

> Several localizer had difficulties to understand what it really does in 
> fact. I find it not precise enough and not in accordance with the Style 
> name it used (First page) and should represent. Also the title of the 
> first part: Make Title Pages look strange to me, I would have say Create 
> or Change to Title Pages.

Oh, I understand ... in my opinion, the dialog tries to be a "swiss army
knife" that covers too many use cases at once. Within Impress, there is
some functionality that only affects slides except the first one. Here,
you may insert / convert pages at given position, change page numbering,
edit and select page styles. And, it doubles some of the functionality
already available in "Insert -- Manual Break..."

The first issue is, that "inserting pages" does not comply to the menu
item "Format". It is about changing existing items, but here you a)
create items, or b) cannot change the parameters of already created
items (e.g. page numbering; = destructive). Weird.

The funny thing is that - on my test system - I am unable to add
"landscape pages". This has been the most common user request and the
reason for having such functionality.

As you said, the dialog doesn't comply to the idea of the page style
"First Page", since it allows to add pages "anywhere". Thus, there has
been the need to come up with another description - I think this is the
reason for having "Title Pages".

For the page numbering, the logical document flow is a bit broken. The
"reset page numbering after title pages" is placed before "Set Page
number for first title page", although the text flow is the other way
round. Not to mention the capitalization that doesn't seem to comply to
the (still applied?) text guidelines ... [1] 

And, the dialog itself has some flaws - try changing "Place title pages
at ... Page 27" with your document having only 1: no problem :-)

Next, the section "Edit Page Properties" does not only allow editing the
page styles, it is also the page style selection that will applied for
the new section.

I could go on ...

<off-topic>
Some time ago, I thought about such functionality and came to the
conclusion (looong time ago, and trying to limit the development
effort), to raise this kind of dialog if people apply a new page style
(apply for whole section, add a page, ...).
</off-topic>

> So you see, I don't know where to express my questioning about this 
> dialog, I don't want to open an issue because I've no solution to 
> propose for a better naming :) I let it up to you ;)

Mmh, I don't know if "I" represent any solution ... at least I don't
like the "wrong structure", although I know that it is an improvement.
Sigh.

Thus, should we CC the devs at libreoffice@... ? I finally start my
business trip tomorrow, so I won't be able to have a look at that within
the next few days.

But to come up with anything - without changing too much, how about:
      * Make Title Pages --> Create Title Pages (or even: Position)
      * Edit Page Properties --> Page Style

For other changes with regard to terminology, we might first require
workflow / functionality improvements (in my point-of-view).

> Kins regards
> Sophie

Sophie, thanks for mentioning that. I hope my comments helped (at least)
a bit ...

Cheers,
Christoph

[1] http://specs.openoffice.org/collaterals/guides/text-style-guide.html


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