[libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2025-Jan-14

Present: Eyal, Martin, Rizal, Heiko
Comments: Simon, Jeff

Tickets/Topics

 * There are no "Deletions in margin" and "Insertions in margin" items
   in some Edit-Track changes submenu
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151665
   + is available on the TC toolbar so no need to add it to the
     main menu of the classic UI (Heiko)
   + Show is duplicated at Edit > TC > Show and View > Show TC;
     because of this redundancy we can sacrifice the Edit > TC > Show
     in favor of a 3-option submenu (Eyal)
   + available on the Tabbed UI but not other Notebookbar variants (Jeff)
   + At the moment, user cannot rely on the Track Changes toolbar being
     visible, so the control may not be readily available (Martin)
   + TC toolbar should show up context sensitively; View should be kept
     simple with just an on/off toggle (Martin)
   => comment

 * Make adding external links to trusted sources easy
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169890
   + Some valid use cases:
     1. User repeatedly opens the same file for editing, wants to avoid
        repeatedly clicking the same warning away.
     2. User has a directory with vetted data files; they want to skip
        all warnings about links to those files. (Eyal)
     + should be on a per document level "path+filename" with an something
       like "[ ] Do not ask again for this document" on the infobar
       or in a dialog accessible from the infobar; perhaps also with some
       kind of hash maintained while editing the document, so that changes
       or move/copy/rename out-of-app cause loss of trust (Eyal)
     + accepting the potential security risk of this scheme
   + "chained" links like a.csv with some number referenced in b.ods
     which again is inserted into c.ods is possible (but wont update
     today); neither we can trust in the document author of the external
     link (Heiko)
     + strongly against weakening the security measures
     + chained reference trust would be forbidden in my per-document idea (Eyal)
   + cooperative environment could never trust this; file storage is
     not necessarily static (Martin)
   => comment

 * Tab disappears after indenting and pressing Enter
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169751
   + see also bug 139963, bug 139986, and bug 161866
   + delete tab or spaces before/after a paragraph if the option
     is on (default); should not be related to Apply Styles; ergo:
     update the help (Heiko)
   + tab might be seen as the wish for indentation; apply styles (AS)
     should act first and continue to apply "Body Text, Indented"; if
     AS is off delete tabs/spaces (Eyal)
   + no strong opinion; better keep any status quo and update the help
     than fiddling around with the workflow (Heiko)
   => comment

 * Add AI capabilities to PC and Android for LibreOffice Writer based
   on dumb but available integrations with Ollama
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170092
   + avoid using the term "AI" and refer to each capability more descriptively,
     e.g. "automation", "machine learning", "fuzzy autocomplete" etc (Simon)
   + uses cases first, see comment 5 (Heiko)
   + While we should not categorically "reject AI", and any possibility of
     using it ever - we should also not abstractly, generally, "accept AI",
     and decide we're sticking LLMs into LibreOffice. (Eyal, Martin)
   + Each specific use case should be suggested separately and considered
     separately (e.g. LLM for translation; ML-based mechanism for extracting
     document structure from PDFs) (Eyal)
   + Microsoft is going the way of making Office "The AI app", and this seems
     to be perceived badly even by users. We should take more of the opposite
     route: The no-AI-slop Office suite (Eyal)
   + If we suggest some generated content to users, we as a community are
     responsible for that content; and we should not take that responsibility
     for what LLMs generate (Eyal)
   + LLMs are a vehicle for feature creep and bloat. We do not presume to
     adopt a bunch of features and capabilities of other apps directly; we
     should not 'slip' into adding them through LLMs (Eyal)
   + The use of LLMs is resource-intensive; LibreOffice should not consume
     a lot of resources, at least not by default, and it should be usable
     also on much older hardware (from the 2000s), not just today's PCs (Eyal)
   + want to resolve the ticket as WF but OTOH appreciate a place
     for discussion (Heiko)
   + Most of the proposed use-cases are just a shortcut for pasting
     content into a separate app/browser window, submitting that to the LLM,
     then copying its response back into our app (Martin, Heiko)
   + keep as honey pot for similar requests (Martin)
   + close as WF but clarify that it is only the particular Ollama suggestion
     that is being rejected (Eyal)
   => resolve WF

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy