Le 15/01/2016 19:28, Pedro Rosmaninho a écrit :
Michel, you can't complain that people are using links not posted in a
tdf/libreoffice website and then talk about feedback in a blog of
someone else. Why didn't that person provide feedback to the design
mailing list for example?
It's not the work of the people that work in UI/UX for LibreOffice to
dig through the Internet looking for feedback in obscure blogs.
But that's currently the state of design documents : they are all stored
in personal gdocs, gdrive, blogs...
That's why I asked to upload all design documents in the official tdf
wiki
: it's the central and official place to find anything related to
LibreOffice. And it oblige the uploader to choose a license.
It brings 2 other questions about surveys and gdocs :
- Where are stored the surveys datas ? Who own those datas ?
- What are the license of those datas ? of those documents ?
As it is related to a FOSS project, it is very important to be clear
about
license and ownership of everything used to create LibreOffice.
Developers are very precise about anything related to license, and I
don't
understand why developers working in/with the design team don't ask that
essential question.
As for
the tools that they prefer to use, I don't see why they should be forced
to eat their own dogfood.
Should they try to incorporate LO as much as possible in their workflow?
Obviously! But if it's detrimental to their productivity then it's
better not to untill it suits them (they then can file bugs and offer
feedback on waht needs to be changed).
No company in the world does that if there's better alternatives out
there.
Heck, do you think development of software in Google is done in ChromeOS
or Android? Or that they don't use Windows/MacOS/Linux distros?
Please, don't suppose I'm so dumb...
I write software for 25 years
"eat their own dogfood" has 3 points :
- marketing : enhance confidence in the product
tell people outside the FOSS circle that LibreOffice is really usable and
versatile
- ethical : TDF fights for open formats, open source software, it is
logical to use tools that respect those values
- technical : if we are our first users, we'll be the first to ask for
corrections/enhancements. The more we are uncompromising, the better
LibreOffice will be.
People in charge of the UI/UX take into account as much feedback as they
can and that is quite transparent. Just go check the Hangouts minutes.
If lately the UI/UX hasn't been stable maybe it's because it had been
"stable" (more like fossilized) for far too long. There were even loads
of features that weren't exposed in the UI! I think it's more than
certain that as the UI/UX becomes updated that it will be more stated.
But in a piece of software with scheduled releases instead of a "launch
when it's ready" model people will inevitably see changes across the
different releases. As they do for the features that are introduced in
each version.
As for Italo complaints, I find them very unfair since he was really
aggressive and even issued threats when he just complained in a really
late stage of the development process for 5.1.
Yes it was a bit aggressive, but that's the feedback of real users in
real-world usage...
Where was his feedback
when this was discussed? Why didn't he provide his feedback earlier?
very good question !
Can you send links of design minutes where that subject was announced and
discussed ?
I searched in my thunderbird and found nothing
(it may be a search error in my thunderbird)
Another example, I just read in the last design minute [1] that a
discussion was started about migrating search&replace in sidebar, and
more
important, thinking about modifying the behavior of sidebar !
AFAIK, there was no announcement, we have no idea of any schedule (time
to
discuss, time to make proposals, time to evaluate them, expected time of
coding...)
How can people participate without a minimum of schedule ?
If
he wants to have a bigger participation in the development then maybe he
should participate in the process earlier and not start shouting when
there's already a hard freeze when he could've said something before.
I think there's an issue of people not knowing how to properly leave
their feedback.
yes, the most important way to give feedback is to participate in
hangouts.
As most of us are volunteers, it's not easy to be available at the exact
time and day of the corresponding subject.
If design team wants to have more people sending feedback, then it should
announce earlier what it's working on, and then send some kind of RFC
(request for comment) on different mailing lists (why not social networks
to have a broader audience ?)
And as I've already said, design process should be done *very early*, and
it should be completed *before* coding starts !
Michel
[1] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07585.html
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