Re: [libreoffice-design] "eat our own dog food"

you have right, I use kde and do design stuff for kde, BUT I use plasma 5.2
from Kubuntu 15.04 (cause there is an BUG in Dolphin at Kubuntu 15.10) and
make design stuff for plasma 5.5. It is a BIG problem that Plasma and KDE
don't offer CI like you have it in LibreOffice. When I don something in LO
I can push it to master and one day later I can install the daily build.

As always the right desicion is somewhere between only use LO and use
google docs or an specific propritory app.

When you link to calligra. The starting point about this mail was that I
start with breeze calligra icons and they want to find also other people to
join. In the end it is everywhere a small group how participate.

but would be cool to add some stuff that is usefull for our work into LO.

cu
Andreas Kainz

2015-12-04 10:38 GMT+01:00 Michel RENON <renon@mr-consultant.net>:

> Hi,
>
> Le 04/12/2015 02:03, Heiko Tietze a écrit :
>
> > On Friday 04 December 2015 00:32:29 Michel RENON wrote:
> >
> > > So why not create mockups with LO Draw ?
> > Nothing against dog food, and of course Draw is a useful tool. But to
> > adopt a
> > paintting tool for mockups is like writing code with a text processor. My
> > scribbles are done with Balsamiq Mockups, which is a specialized tool.
> > You may
> > read [1] on how to use it. There are some similar applications with
> > different
> > features and other use cases. But no true usability engineer would apply
> > Inkscape for that purpose. It's the same for KDE: only designers do work
> > with
> > Krita or Inkscape (BTW: there is a complete kit for desktop applications
> > [2]).
> > So what is expected from a mockup tool:
> > * interactivity (on click either another page should open or the controls
> > have
> > to work as usual),
>
> Today, the mockups are pasted in a gdoc, in pdf or in a wiki page.
> So interactivity is not used at all.
>
> If you really need interactivity, why not use Impress ?
> Just like Draw, it would be the opportunity to see if it's really a
> powerful tool.
> (Few years ago, I read a blog about using Powerpoint to create interactive
> mockups)
>
> * collaborativity (drafts need to get shared easily),
> >
>
> well, I think that using a std format (svg or odf) is better that a live
> tool based on a proprietary format
>
> * comprehensive set of control (you don't want to draw buttons every time,
> > and
> > those controls should be easy interchangable),
>
> that's where LO would need huge enhancement !
> the current gallery would be a rough start, but it would be possible.
> Then it would be the opportunity to request enhancements to
> Draw/gallery/impress
>
>
> * look and feel like scribbles (pixel-perfect design is misleading),
> >
>
> 'scribbles like' is not mandatory, it's just a way to avoid drawing too
> much details.
> We can have same results with std drawing objects (std rectangle...)
>
> An example from OpenOffice :
>
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/w/images/9/94/2010-01-17_PrintingDialog_inclStringReview.png
>
> and one I made in few minutes, more than 2 years ago :
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/6/69/Template_manager_mre_v1.jpg
>
> Both are far from pixel-perfect, while being done with Draw.
>
> * support for layout (arrangement, placement etc.)
> >
>
> Again, this would be an opportunity to enhance Draw/Impress based on real
> usage needs.
> First one : live guide to align objects while dragging
>
>
> IMHO it makes no sense to enhance Draw for this purpose.
> >
>
> I agree it would remove some comfort, but at the end, we could also tell
> people "hey, we use Draw/Impress every day in the design team and look what
> we create ! So now, you can't say anymore that they are not powerful
> enough", and we would be trusty.
>
>
> From what I heard about OpenOffice/LibreOffice :
> - Writer is powerful, but looks outdated compared to Word
> - Calc is clearly behind Excel (tools, ease of use, UI), while being a
> serious software
> - Impress is non-existant compared to Powerpoint : buggy, unusable,
> completely outdated, few and uggly clipart, few and uggly templates
> - Draw : mixed reviews :
>     - so we can draw with LibreOffice ???
>     - seems powerful but not easy to discover/use
>
> My personal experience with Impress :
> I had to create a simple slideshow : slides with only text with bullets,
> no animations. It was difficult because a list of very annoying details. So
> I clearly say to other people "don't use Impress".
>
> So using LO internally would be a first step to enhance it.
> The more we find it difficult, the more we have to enhance it !
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michel
>
>
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