Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Libre Icons.zip

Hi Toby, Astron, all

Astron schrieb:
> Hello Toby,
>
> First of all, you are probably writing to the wrong list. Design
> question best go to design@global.libreoffice.org and you're invited
> to join there (I'm CC'ing this list).

Thanks, Astron, for moving this topic to this list!

> Second, please note that I am only speaking as a single contributor to
> the design team and am in general not an important person in the
> project.

Even if you speak on your own behalf, this doesn't mean that your voice 
doesn't have influence and wouldn't be heard...
(especially as your comments and contributions show that you are one of 
the most active members of the Design team ;-) )
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Richards, Toby
> <toby.richards@slo.courts.ca.gov>  wrote:
> > I hope you can get attachments.

We can't on the design list, but the ux-advise list you sent your mail 
to accepted the attachment (even if I didn't like to open a zipped 
attachment without knowing it's content). Would you mind to upload your 
proposal to the wiki (after creating an account) and send the link here, 
so it's easier for others to have a look?

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org

> > I realized that I really dislike the current
> > Libre Office icon.

Some people shared your opinion, but other like it quite well. But there 
is always room for improvement, so all your comments and proposals are 
welcome.

> > It looks like the icon for a generic file, which makes it
> > ambiguous.

It looks a bit similar to a "standard" document icon, but I don't 
consider this as problem or fault: LibreOffice *is* (or at least should 
be) the product to open and work on a variety of documents, so it's 
positive in my eyes, if people consider our icon as a generic document icon.

In some circumstances our main application icon looks a bit "colorless" 
to me, but the sub-application / document icons are a good contrast to 
this...
> I can understand your criticism that document and application icons
> look the same. That is not optimal.

In fact, I don't consider this a problem:

There is no document icon that looks like the main application icon.

The sub-application icons might be considered as document icons, as they 
open an (empty) document  - but this leads to the discussion about 
marketing single sub-applications or one integrated main application: An 
important, but different topic.

> [...] it takes a lot of time and energy to create modern icons and
> we (as in, the Libreoffice community) have changed them less than half
> a year ago. Changing them again radically now is probably not an
> option. If you'd like to read more about the design process, see this
> wiki page:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons .
Any change to central branding elements like the icons or the logo need 
really good reasons - but provided such reasons are supported by the 
community (especially with regards to the marketing impact of the 
modification), any change might be possible.
> > If you cannot get attachments on the list, then try
> > https://sites.google.com/site/tobiasrichards/misc-files/LibreIcons.zip?attredirects=0&d=1
>
> Now on to your proposal. I am sorry, but I don't think it currently
> has the necessary quality:
> * Its meaning is unclear to me—it looks like a "double traffic light"
> and doesn't seem to have any relation to documents/a suite/an office
> etc.

I don't understand the reason for eight corners - the icon looks like a 
shield, it resembles rather a virus protect product than an office suite.

If you want to refer to the sub-applications, I would think of adding 
the symbolism of them at least in the larger scales...

> * There are only four key applications, not six—Base, Calc, Impress,
> Writer, and one smaller application, Math; even though "Chart" (like
> Math) is accessible from within Calc, Impress and Writer, it doesn't
> have an own menu shortcut, so it doesn't count

You did forget Draw and Base.
Depending on the status of Math, there are five or six sub-applications 
even without Chart.

The Start Center shows all the six, so I don't think this is really wrong.

> * Google Images suggests that by BSG you mean Battlestar Galactica...
> if that is what you mean, please bear in mind that LibreOffice is
> supposed to appeal to wide international audience and not everyone
> will be able to make this connection.

I don't see any reference to BSG, my ZIP file contains .png images only.
> Even in case you now decide to quit icon-making, you should know that
> as a manager of what is probably a larger deployment of
> Openoffice.org/LibO you can might be able to make a few good proposals
> for usability improvements.

We still need icons (especially a consistent set of menu icons in 
different themes), and there is nobody who hinders you from keeping on 
working on the mimetype icons.

But be aware, that your designs will most like be easier implemented in 
the product, when you work in an area where help is really necessary.

If you have a look at the archives of this list, you will see that there 
have been some requests for artwork: Icon for extensions, template for 
conference presentation and others.

Perhaps you feel interested in one if these topics?

In case of any questions feel free to post them here to the mailing list...

Best regards

Bernhard

PS: In case that you want to know more about the team and our work, 
there is already some information in the Design area of the wiki:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted