Re: [libreoffice-design] UX -> question on a new dialog

Hi Christoph,
On 08/12/2010 02:26, Christoph Noack wrote:
> Hi Sophie!
>
> Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 17:37 +0300 schrieb Sophie Gautier:
> > Hi all, Christoph,
> >
> > I don't know if I should post here the question/concern I have about a
> > new dialog appeared in LibO in beta2 or 3 (can't remember), but at
> > least, I know you're there Christoph ;-)
> So hiding doesn't make any sense, or? But however, I think anybody on
> this list is eager to hear questions... :-)
>
> > Under the Writer Format menu, there is a new dialog named Title Page.
> Ouch! I didn't even knew that something like this has been added ...
>
> I know that (since ages) people do have problems how to add "different
> pages" (e.g. a different first page), and the solution is challenging
> (considering our non-workflow driven application menu).
>
> > Several localizer had difficulties to understand what it really does in
> > fact. I find it not precise enough and not in accordance with the Style
> > name it used (First page) and should represent. Also the title of the
> > first part: Make Title Pages look strange to me, I would have say Create
> > or Change to Title Pages.
> Oh, I understand ... in my opinion, the dialog tries to be a "swiss army
> knife" that covers too many use cases at once. Within Impress, there is
> some functionality that only affects slides except the first one. Here,
> you may insert / convert pages at given position, change page numbering,
> edit and select page styles. And, it doubles some of the functionality
> already available in "Insert -- Manual Break..."
>
> The first issue is, that "inserting pages" does not comply to the menu
> item "Format". It is about changing existing items, but here you a)
> create items, or b) cannot change the parameters of already created
> items (e.g. page numbering; = destructive). Weird.
>
> The funny thing is that - on my test system - I am unable to add
> "landscape pages". This has been the most common user request and the
> reason for having such functionality.
>
> As you said, the dialog doesn't comply to the idea of the page style
> "First Page", since it allows to add pages "anywhere". Thus, there has
> been the need to come up with another description - I think this is the
> reason for having "Title Pages".
>
> For the page numbering, the logical document flow is a bit broken. The
> "reset page numbering after title pages" is placed before "Set Page
> number for first title page", although the text flow is the other way
> round. Not to mention the capitalization that doesn't seem to comply to
> the (still applied?) text guidelines ... [1]
>
> And, the dialog itself has some flaws - try changing "Place title pages
> at ... Page 27" with your document having only 1: no problem :-)
>
> Next, the section "Edit Page Properties" does not only allow editing the
> page styles, it is also the page style selection that will applied for
> the new section.
>
> I could go on ...
>
> <off-topic>
> Some time ago, I thought about such functionality and came to the
> conclusion (looong time ago, and trying to limit the development
> effort), to raise this kind of dialog if people apply a new page style
> (apply for whole section, add a page, ...).
> </off-topic>
>
> > So you see, I don't know where to express my questioning about this
> > dialog, I don't want to open an issue because I've no solution to
> > propose for a better naming :) I let it up to you ;)
> Mmh, I don't know if "I" represent any solution ... at least I don't
> like the "wrong structure", although I know that it is an improvement.
> Sigh.
>
> Thus, should we CC the devs at libreoffice@... ? I finally start my
> business trip tomorrow, so I won't be able to have a look at that within
> the next few days.
>
> But to come up with anything - without changing too much, how about:
>        * Make Title Pages -->  Create Title Pages (or even: Position)
>        * Edit Page Properties -->  Page Style
>
> For other changes with regard to terminology, we might first require
> workflow / functionality improvements (in my point-of-view).
>
> > Kins regards
> > Sophie
> Sophie, thanks for mentioning that. I hope my comments helped (at least)
> a bit ...

Yes, thanks a lot, I'll be able to make a proposal through an issue now :)

Kind regards
Sophie


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