[libreoffice-accessibility] Re: Sluggishness with NVDA and Calc

Hi Richard,

thanks a lot for the bug reports! I've set the bugs to confirmed in 
Bugzilla and have added them to the Windows accessibility meta bug.

One more note for the announcement of the full hierarchy: If that 
bothers you a lot, pressing right arrow, then left arrow should be a 
usable workaround for now to get the wanted announcement of only the 
cell earlier (since the full hierarchy is not spoken when just 
navigating using the arrow keys without changing values).

Michael

PS: Adding the accessibility mailing list back to recipients.

On 18/12/2021 21.18, Richard B. McDonald wrote:
> Hi Michael and Simon!
>
> I have created 1) 146306 – Sluggishness with NVDA and Calc 
> <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146306> and 2) 
> 146307 – Full Accessibility Hierarchy of Cell in Calc Being Announced 
> <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146307> bugs in 
> Bugzilla.
>
> Michael, would you please review my entry of these bugs?  Specifically, 
> could you please tag each as “confirmed” and also tweak each as 
> appropriate so as to up their priority (see next).  Also, anything that 
> you deem good as regards adding meta tags and keywords are greatly 
> appreciated!
>
> Simon is correct; these issues have existed for a long time.  When I 
> first started working with LO, I thought they were transitory; meaning 
> that I thought it was due to a user (my) lack of skill in using NVDA and 
> Calc.  Indeed, they are “development” issues.  The thing of it is that 
> these issues are basically a full-stop as regards using Calc with a 
> screen reader or with Braille.
>
> I have added these two bugs into our Bug Summary Schedule.  Notably, 
> both have been given a “Class A” ranking; and each has been further 
> ranked 1.10.1 and 1.10.2 (respectively) in the hope that they might be 
> addressed as soon as possible.  Ideally, these issues could be fixed in 
> LibreOffice Dev 7.4.
>
> Simon, thanks for your input here.
>
> Bye,
>
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Eigeldinger <simon.eigeldinger@vol.at>
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 8:05 AM
> To: accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Sluggishness with NVDA and Calc
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I am navigating using the arrow keys.
>
> Thinking of it i am still using LibreOffice 7.1.5.
>
> So at the moment i am not sure if this bug is still present.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Simon
>
> Am 17.12.2021 um 16:11 schrieb Michael Weghorn:
>
>  > Hi Simon,
>
>  >
>
>  > out of interest: How are you navigating through the sheet? Are you
>
>  > using the arrow keys (left, right, up, down) on a keyboard?
>
>  > It would definitely be interesting to hear whether the issue is still
>
>  > present once the problem mentioned by Richard has been fixed.
>
>  >
>
>  > Kind regards,
>
>  > Michael
>
>  >
>
>  > On 17/12/2021 15.31, Simon Eigeldinger wrote:
>
>  >> Hi Guys,
>
>  >>
>
>  >> I also have something to that issue as well.
>
>  >> Though i don't know if it is the same sluggishness.
>
>  >> i have the feeling it has something to do with loosing focus or
>
>  >> having tracking issues.
>
>  >> When navigating very quickly through the sheet NVDA can't track the
>
>  >> cursor in the sheet window and on the braille display you just see
>
>  >> the word Cell.
>
>  >> Speech stops after that.
>
>  >> You can see that the cursor still moves because when you alt+tab out
>
>  >> of the window and back in again you are on the cell where you wanted
>
>  >> to be.
>
>  >> The problem is then when navigating to the next cell you have the
>
>  >> same tracking/focus issues again.
>
>  >> The problem is a pretty old one i guess.
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Greetings,
>
>  >> Simon
>
>  >>
>
>  >>
>
>  >> Am 17.12.2021 um 15:05 schrieb Michael Weghorn:
>
>  >>> Hi Richard,
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> I can reproduce the behavior you describe, though the lag is only
>
>  >>> about 4-5 seconds in my case.
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> I'd suggest to create 2 bug reports in Bugzilla to keep track of this:
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> * one bug report for the slowness (the first two aspects you
>
>  >>> mention)
>
>  >>> * one bug report for the full "accessibility hierarchy of the cell"
>
>  >>> being announced
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> More technically: I've taken a first look at the first one. It seems
>
>  >>> that a significant amount of time is spent on retrieving/generating
>
>  >>> an accessible description of involved accessibility objects.
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> For the second issue: To my understanding, screen readers usually
>
>  >>> only announce the "hierarchy" of a focused object up to the point
>
>  >>> from which it's different from the previously focused object. One
>
>  >>> potential explanation for the current behavior could be that for
>
>  >>> some reason it's not exposed to NVDA that the previously selected
>
>  >>> cell is a "sibling" of the one selected afterwards, or somehow focus
>
>  >>> is on another accessibility object in between.
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> Both issues require a closer analysis from a development
>
>  >>> perspective, so unfortunately I currently have no idea what you
>
>  >>> could do from a user perspective to avoid this.
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> Both issues don't occur when just navigating through the spreadsheet
>
>  >>> using the arrow keys (i.e. without making any changes) or when using
>
>  >>> the Orca screen reader with the gtk3 VCL plugin on Linux.
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> Kind regards,
>
>  >>> Michael
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>> On 16/12/2021 18.49, Richard B. McDonald wrote:
>
>  >>>> Hi!
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> I am using Windows 10, LibraOffice 7.2.4 and NVDA 2021.3.  with
>
>  >>>> Calc, there is a great amount of sluggishness, as outlined below:
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> - With a spreadsheet open, each time I enter a number into a cell,
>
>  >>>> there is
>
>  >>>> like a 15 second delay before NVDA responds with the number entered.
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> - When using the enter or arrow keys after entering a number into a
>
>  >>>> cell to
>
>  >>>> move to a new cell, it takes like 15 seconds before NVDA responds.
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> - Generally, after performing any of the two above actions, the full
>
>  >>>> file
>
>  >>>> path and file name is spoken.
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> I do not have any special settings in either NVDA or LO.  When using
>
>  >>>> JAWS
>
>  >>>> and Excel, I experience none of this sluggishness.  What is causing
>
>  >>>> this?
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> Thanks,
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>> Richard
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>>
>
>  >>>
>
>  >>
>
>  >
>
> --
>
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