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[libreoffice-accessibility] Fwd: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.


Hello. I wanted to forward the following thread from the NVDA discussion list. This has to do with a bug where NVDA is not announcing which cells in Calc are being selected when using the shift key along with arrow keys. A similar issue also exists with JAWS.




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are selected in libreoffice calc.
Date:   Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:52:37 +1100
From:   Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
Reply-To:       main@TechTalk.groups.io
To:     main@techtalk.groups.io



Just confirming that as per the discussion on the linked issue - https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6897 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802942784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nU1N25mGmF414AgoGcsPGyQs6Wo7VuMbo%2FsVRIwexoE%3D&reserved=0> - it's not that we're ignoring it, but that we need LibreOffice to expose what is happening so we can report it.  We have had virtually no success in getting any traction on issues with LibreOffice.

For the record, I found this issue reported against LibreOffice back in 2016 which is still listed as "New"... https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100086 <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.documentfoundation.org%2Fshow_bug.cgi%3Fid%3D100086&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802952780%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=y%2FjLA%2FFeLmkb5sd8GN5ZPZEb3gIT0uiL%2B9XXpG8GAlo%3D&reserved=0>

If anyone has any contacts with LibreOffice developers, do please feel free to get them in touch with us...

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 11:51 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>> wrote:

   And is the responsibility with NVDA or with the program itself? Did the
   program work properly in this respect in the past?  Did the same
   version of
   the program work properly with an earlier version of NVDA?  It may
   be that
   NVDA can be made to work properly with this feature of Libre Office,
   but
   various programs included with Libre Office have long not been properly
   accessible.  I don't know how the program sends such information to
   NVDA and
   it may require the developers of Libre Office to address the problem
   or it
   may take unreasonable time and resources for NVDA to correct
   something that
   is a fault of the program, given the priorities and resource
   limitations you
   spoke of.

   Gene
   -----Original Message-----
   From: David Goldfield
   Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:45 AM
   To: main@TechTalk.groups.io <mailto:main@TechTalk.groups.io>
   Subject: Re: [TechTalk] nvda doesn't tell me which cells are
   selected in
   libreoffice calc.

   Do we know that NV Access is ignoring this issue? We need to consider
   that they have many bugs in the queue and that these issues need to be
   carefully prioritized and, as we say in the industry, groomed based on
   many factors. How severe is the bug? How many users might it affect?
   What is the level of effort needed in order to determine what is causing
   the issue and what is needed to correct it? How many developers do we
   have and which one(s) should be assigned to address it and what is their
   current bandwidth and workload? Don't get me wrong; I am not downplaying
   the severity of this issue. Not receiving audible or possibly Braille
   feedback while selecting cells in a spreadsheet is an accessibility
   defect and it should be addressed. I'm only saying that there are many
   factors which determine how, when or if it can/will be addressed? I
   think that we should be very careful in making statements such as saying
   that a company is ignoring an issue just because it hasn't been
   addressed or commented on in a Github ticket. There may have been
   discussions about prioritizing LibreOffice accessibility issues that we
   as end users wouldn't necessarily know about.

   David Goldfield,
   Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
   JAWS Certified, 2019

   WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
   
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   On 10/14/2020 8:24 AM, Norman wrote:
    > You're right on the version number. using version 7.0.2.2
    >
    > Searching github, this seems to be a long standing issue that
   nvaccess is
    > ignoring.
    >
    >
    >
   
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=DWoE2%2BSH7X5j1fzfr%2Bso6WSV2aVt7Du8sNr%2Fe4t6XPg%3D&amp;reserved=0
   
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F6897&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802972771%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NdhzW80%2FoQX9wvHliUH%2FFUae%2Fbk9yY0tlsn8M89n1YM%3D&reserved=0>
    >
    > I'm not on the nvda list, but this would be worth reporting there.
    >
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    >
    >
    > On 10/14/2020 8:17 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
    >> > Latest means latest, right?
    >>
    >> On one level, yes. However, please consider that someone who
   says "I am
    >> using the latest version of NVDA might sincerely believe that he
   is using
    >> the very latest version but may actually be using an earlier
   version
    >> without realizing it. He may not have been aware that one or more
    >> versions had been subsequently released since the version that he
    >> installed or which may have been installed for him. In fact,
   since a new
    >> version of NVDA was just released yesterday I can't assume that
   the user
    >> might actually be aware of this fact. Therefore, a user who
   tells me that
    >> he is using the latest version of a program doesn't actually
   verify to me
    >> that we're talking about the latest version. Specifying version
   numbers
    >> removes this ambiguity.
    >> For LibreOffice, the latest version is 7.0.2. Is this the one
   you are
    >> running?
    >>
    >> David Goldfield,
    >> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
    >> JAWS Certified, 2019
    >>
    >>
   
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
   
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802982764%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nGw3scFHo4quLY%2Bx%2Bnl3Ihd7pbWFAR8ZXuhSJ6xc3pU%3D&reserved=0>
    >>
    >> On 10/14/2020 7:55 AM, Norman wrote:
    >>> Latest means latest, right?
    >>>
    >>> nvda 2020.3 and libreoffice 7.2.2
    >>>
    >>> I'll check github.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Thanks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 10/14/2020 6:01 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
    >>>> Norman, while I don't write this to be unkind could you tell
   us the
    >>>> exact version of NVDA and of LibreOffice you are using. I know
   you said
    >>>> that you are using the latest version of NVDA but that doesn't
   tell us
    >>>> exactly which version you are using.
    >>>> I can confirm that this is an issue using NVDA 2020.3 and
   LibreOffice
    >>>> Calc 7.0.1. I would encourage you to search the NV Access
   Github to see
    >>>> if this has been filed as a bug. If it has not please do
   report this if
    >>>> you have not already done so.
    >>>>
    >>>> David Goldfield,
    >>>> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
    >>>> JAWS Certified, 2019
    >>>>
    >>>>
   
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce8e238f6e1e345780d3c08d8703c3552%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637382751176325234&amp;sdata=Xz2G6ktNvhU7mU2kQbM6AJKszmhkhFXIgww2%2BWFjF6k%3D&amp;reserved=0
   
<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C443576a6947c4de967ff08d870b56c53%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637383271802992758%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nma7o%2Fr%2Fm3h%2FWouc7Q5wQR5QM9ybzZQyyO6EquYZ718%3D&reserved=0>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 10/14/2020 5:37 AM, Norman wrote:
    >>>>> Hello all.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> As the subject line says, if using libreoffice with the
   latest version
    >>>>> of nvda nvda doesn't report which cells i'm selecting if i
   hold down
    >>>>> shift and use the arrow keys.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Does anyone know how to fix this?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

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