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Hello Michael and all,

wow! At least! Some *precise* and to the point answers! Thanks!

Le 18/02/2012 09:21, Michael Meeks a écrit :

On Sat, 2012-02-18 at 08:50 +0100, Jean-Francois Nifenecker wrote:
As I understand (correct me if necessary) this list goal -- which I find
excellent -- is to narrow the topic to actual user experience
enhancements

        Well - the idea is that this is a place that hackers can get advice
from user experience experts. ie. "I want to do XYZ change, I have a
patch to do it - first let me check with some UX experts". It is
intended to try to build good relationships between designers and those
who actually implement their designs, thus far it seems to be working.

Ah! Ah! I'm starting to get the real thing which has nothing to see with what I was presented at first: this list is in *no* way for users to ask for a change/enhancement to the devs! It is all the way around: the devs are those asking for advice to the world.

So, if this is the actual goal, telling people in the users' discussion lists to come here is plain *wrong*.

-> The list to go is *[design]* isn't it?


My feeling, at this first participation, is that apparently
it's quite difficult to make ideas flow here when one's not from the
happy few.

        The design list is a great place for this 'flowing' of ideas.

uh uh...


So here are a few questions of mine that will help me understand the
nuts and bolts of this list: Where do the discussions lead ? Who decides
to (not) implement a change discussed here ? When is a consensus
considered valid ? Who decides that ?

        So in all of these cases, the discussions produce advice to a developer
who asked for advice. It is fairly useless having a consensus solely of
people who are unable to make any real change in the code :-) As such,
pissing off the developers by immoderate criticism is a highly
ineffective way to achieve any change, instead it is likely to solidify
opposition.

Now I have a much clearer view of this list usage. It seems I goofed and pissed people off without even knowing I did so. Sorry for that.

-> I guess TDF should make things clearer to the outer world and internally. *Much* clearer. This would be a service to all: the devs who wouldn't be bothered by some "whingers" (like myself, though I wouldn't classify me as such) and users like myself who wouldn't spoil their time sending hopeful messages to some inappropriate place.


As I wish to post a few new messages wrt various UX topics I'm
considering important, I'd better know how things are held so that the
threads don't go wild because of respective ignorance.

        If this is initiated by you, and you have no intention of doing any
coding on the topic, this is the wrong place - please try the 'design'
list.

*Now* I understand that. Thanks again for clarifying.

-> don't you think it would be *very* beneficial to all to make things *very* *very* *VERY* clear about what each list is meant for? Who's asking what to whom?

Thanks again for answering and giving me a clearer view about UX. It's a shame that those who participate (hey, Cedric!) are themselves directing people here while we (I) should go elsewhere (ie, [design]). Then they feel pissed off... Doh!


So I see that my place is not here. I'll un-subscribe when this thread is over and leave you in peace. Accept my apologies for my dumb questions. I'll go the [design] route. Hopefully my messages will find their way there.


PS: wrt the text boundaries thingy, do you know if that feature discussed on [design]? If it was not, then we're in a catch 22.


Best regards,
--
Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux

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