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Hi Olivier!

Am Samstag, den 17.09.2011, 14:28 +0200 schrieb Olivier R.:
Hello Christoph,

Le 16/09/2011 22:40, Christoph Noack a écrit :

Okay, let's address this step by step - I think everybody agrees that
the visualization of page breaks is valuable. I, personally, also use
the page break information quite heavily.

So am I.

Well, then let's see how we can combine the needs of those millions out
there and us ... :-)

But, the blue (or whatever colored) line isn't self explaining - so the
question is whether it helps (advanced users) or worries (less advanced
users) if it is shown in the Writer WYSIWYG mode - it could even be a
document border. That was our rationale to switch the visibility of this
"line" with the non-printing characters, plus adding a "this is a page
break icon" plus tooltip.

So I currently see two alternatives trying to balance the needs of the
variety of users ...

Version 1: Back to a (tweaked) former behavior
       * non-printing characters off -->  show the line (but: use a narrow
         dashed line to make it look like a markup, like the
         headers/footers indicator or the Notes connector lines)
       * non-printing characters on -->  show the line and add the icon
         for "this is a page break" (which is currently implemented via
         text, as Cedric stated)

Version 2: Make the border a formatting aid -->  Same behavior as above,
but make the the line a configurable formatting aid (Tools - Options -
Writer - Formatting Aids). [BTW: I don't like to add more configuration
options, but it would fit to the concept we have today...]

Imho, page/column breaks are text boundaries more than special 
characters, so I think it should be visible as well as page/sections 
boundaries, and that’s why I suggested the first solution. But it does 
not really matter if it should be a full page/column line, a dashed line 
or a shortened line (to fit more to WYSIWYG), or something else, as long 
as this information is available WITHOUT displaying non-printable 
characters. That was the main concern on the French ml.

As I said, the line could be kept (either always, or being a formatting
aid), but needs more explanation (doable if non-printing characters are
"on"). Concerning the visualization: some good proposals have been made
by Cedric at the Hackfest ... so I think he is aware how this could be
done.

And, the behavior/visualization you are referring to is clearly the less
WYSIWYG draft mode we lack since quite some time ...

Why? Simply because some of us just never display the non-printable 
characters. So removing all hints of the presence of page/column breaks 
without NP-chars is like removing them totally. Switching all the times 
the displaying mode would be really unconvenient.

Well, the "some of us" is my question here - looking at the major
userbase of LibO, the question is always which part of the users
benefits from what decision (or gets worried).

@ Cedric, Olivier: Mmh, currently thinking if (after our changes) the
former upper document border is still the right place to draw such a
line, or whether the upper page border would fit even more ... Any
opinion?

It could be small red arrow in the margin, or two slashes // at the 
corner to suggest that the text flow has been cut.

Mmh, will think about that as well ... but at the moment we need a
solution that considers Cedric's workload and that works for all of us.
So, waiting for his opinion on the two alternatives.

[...]

Cheers,
Christoph


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