Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Toolbar look improvement (toolbar option button removal)

Arghh, forgot something important: Thank for your great work,
Kendy!!! :-)

Cheers,
Christoph

Am Montag, den 13.06.2011, 17:41 +0200 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> Hi Kendy, hi Cor!
>
> Am Montag, den 13.06.2011, 10:11 +0200 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
> ...
> > On 2011-06-11 at 23:25 +0200, Christoph Noack wrote:
> ...
> > > But (a huge but) we should prepare for _serious_ noise if we remove the
> > > option buttons. Especially since we break with Microsoft Office 2003
> > > (Windows) behavior, and we have impact on the usability for
> > > close-to-no-context-menus platforms like Mac OS X.
> >
> > I guess that similarity to 2003 will not be that a big issue; 2003 comes
> > from the days when the UX had a trend of overwhelming the users with the
> > possibilities to configure just everything.  Today, I see the trend of
> > giving the user maximum of the workplace for her/his work, with minimum
> > distraction - and at least for me, these buttons are distracting :-)
>
> 1:0 for Kendy :-)
>
> Seriously, you're right that (early) MSO and (current) OOo tended
> towards "add it first, people may remove it manually". The hard thing
> is, for us, to remove stuff but keep the really needed functionality
> accessible/visible.
>
> ...
>
> > > So, I do have two proposals to solve these inconsistencies - but I'm
> > > still unsure whether people will (more than) complain. Touching this
> > > functionality gives a 50/50 chance for improvement/non-improvement.
> > >
> > > Proposal 1: Based on your proposal ...
> > >       * In all cases, keep the context menu as it is today (e.g. show
> > >         the remaining items if the toolbar cannot be fully shown and
> > >         hides some items).
> > >       * Docked toolbar, sufficient space: (like you proposed)
> > >       * Docked toolbar, limited space:
> > >               * remove the toolbar options
> > >               * keep the items being shown due to limited space for the
> > >                 usual toolbar
> > >               * remove the downwards triangle
> > >               * center the double-arrow (>>) that indicates items are
> > >                 hidden
> > >       * Floating toolbar: Remove the triangle to access the options
> > >         menu.
> >
> > Sounds good to me, thank you!  Since what I have done is half-way there,
> > would it be OK for you to let the rest as an Easy Hack?  I mean, I think
> > that after my change, it is "good enough" (TM) and I can/will easily do
> > the removal of the downwards triangle and center the double-arrow (>>),
> > but the rest is slightly more work [not _that_ much, but because the
> > same menu is currently used for the context (right-click) menu, and for
> > the "more" functionality, the code will need to do a bit more handling
> > of these two possibilities].
>
> Sounds (very) good to me - at least it is a chance to implement the
> change incrementally. If we get serious complaints, it might be easier
> to go back - if required (I don't hope so). Could you please take care
> to "conserve" it as an easy hack? Would it be possible to add me as an
> potential UX contact for further questions?
>
> ...
>
> > > By the way, I noticed that we do not conform to Windows standards - our
> > > floating toolbar titles do not react on right-clicks to open the
> > > corresponding context menu, see [4].
> > >
> > > [4] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511500.aspx#paletteWindows
> >
> > Sounds like one more Easy Hack :-)
>
> I think we get too many Easy Hacks - we should start to make
> deverloper's lives less simple ;-)))
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
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