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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

Hello Paul

On 30 septembre 2014 15:38:26 CEST, Paul <paulsteyn1@afrihost.co.za> wrote:
>Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more...
>On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:54:58 +0200
>"Charles-H. Schulz" <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>> Le 30.09.2014 13:26, Tanstaafl a écrit :
>> > On 9/29/2014 2:55 PM, Tom Davies <tomcecf@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Yes, "Fresh" is stable but because it's had new features added we
>> >> can expect to find that some things that don't so well in "Fresh"
>> >> and yet still
>> >> find that they work perfectly fine in "Still".
>> >>
>> >> To many of us that all sounds like a lot of politicians, or
>> >> marketing, double-speak.
>> >
>> > Agreed.
>> >
>> > Why for criminy's sake reinvent these terms using such nonsensical
>> > words?
>> >
>> > Just use *estabalished* terms, aka Debian...
>> >
>> > Stable (Still). Testing (Fresh). Unstable (Development).
>> >
>> > This is really just a ridiculous state of affairs.
>> I am sorry to say this, but what is ridiculous here is the inability
>> of some to even understand what is being discussed.
>I'm afraid, Charles, that this applies to you too. Everyone seems to be
>talking at cross-purposes.
>> Fresh is not testing. It has never been "testing".
>And yet, from the perspective of the terminology many, many people are
>used to from so very many other >projects, it *is* the testing branch.

While several other projects use this system not all of them do. Are you baffled at Firefox three release channels that has one long term support another similar to our Fresh branch and a true testing one?

Call me callous but this perspective has been encouraged here on this list for some years so I actually think that while nothing is perfect, far from that, there is a magnifying glass on the matter here.

Where I disagree with you is that there are people who think that fresh is unstable and not even a testing branch... but so be it.

>Even if that isn't a true representation of the actual state of
>affairs, people are used to thinking in those terms, and the current
>state of affairs doesn't prevent that, it only confuses people as they
>try to work out which branch is the "testing" branch and which is the
>"stable" branch, because those are the terms they are used to and
>Just changing terminology doesn't help people, only clear explanations
>would, and you don't need to change terminology for that. If you didn't
>change terminology, and had clear explanations, it is debatable if it
>would be better or worse than changed terminology and clear
>explanations, but either state would be so many leagues ahead of
>changed terminology and no explanations, as it is now, that it is
>baffling as to why those in charge are fighting so adamantly to keep
>things as they are. Never mind changing the terminology again, who do
>they still insist on not putting any explanations on the website?

Paul my stance has not changed. No one refuses to do anything. I simply do not have the time and I am just a volunteer. People on this list think they can just demand something and it will happen. It does not work that way. We are a community and if you want to fix something, by all means go ahead.

The explanation you are alluding to is on my todo list but I have several other items before that. And I am glad if people can help, which in this case start by either using our Redmine to define the contents and introducing oneself on the website mailing list.
>> If you want
>> testing, test betas, or release candidates. We have these for both
>> branches, so let me rephrase this so to make it clear for everyone :
>> Fresh branch
>> (x.y.0, x.y.1 , etc.)
>> for each of these versions, we have several betas and release
>> candidates.
>> This means that testing has happened already on betas and release
>> candidates for each version of the fresh branch.
>> Still branch
>> (w.x.4, w.x.5, w.x.6)
>> for each of these versions, we have several betas and release
>> candidates.
>> This means that testing has happened already on betas and release
>> candidates for each version of the fresh branch.
>A good (for us, at least) explanation, but again, why are we the only
>ones getting it, and not the public at >large?

Actually you do because that part (at least) is on the website already.

>> Cor made a very good point earlier. He highlighted the importance of
>> finding a proper way to clarify this, but not wasting our time in
>> proposing other terms who will never be liked by everyone anyway. Let
>> me encourage all those who pretend to actually have an opinion or who
>> think the Illuminati are leading the LibreOffice project to focus on
>> helping rather than complaining.
>Some of us have, but have been pointedly ignored. Why is this?

See my comment on contributing above.

>As I have said before, put clear explanations on the website. Without
>that, no change in terminology will *ever* be adequate. And this really
>shouldn't be hard to do. And should be a priority.

Never tell a volunteer what to do. It does not work. I know there is no malice in what you are expressing but this point is important. I have a dayjob, a family, hobbies and other tasks and roles inside LibreOffice. And I am not the only one.

>I realise that you have previously said that this is the only forum to
>complain about this issue, and that the other forums (like twitter, I
>think it was), had very few to no complaints about the terminology
>change, but so what? What is the downside to putting clear explanations
>on the website?

Absolutely none, indeed.

>It can hardly make it worse for those >that are already
>happy with the situation, and can only make it better for those that
>are unhappy or confused, so why so much resistance to it?
>The other solution, to make it *easy* to install side-by-side versions,
>should be done irrespective of the terminology, but I realise that will
>take considerably longer to implement. Although it still should be
>recognised as an important part of this puzzle.

Others have responded on this, but thanks for your input.



>> Thanks!
>> Charles.

Envoyé de mon téléphone avec Kaiten Mail. Excusez la brièveté.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Paul <paulsteyn1@afrihost.co.za>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Jean-Francois Nifenecker <jean-francois.nifenecker@laposte.net>
[libreoffice-users] LibreOffice Still?NoOp <glgxg@sbcglobal.net>
[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?arakish <rmfrunyan@gmail.com>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?"\"J. Van Brimmer\"" <jerry.vb@gmail.com>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Florian Reisinger <florei@libreoffice.org>
[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?alphacrash <v837502@att.net>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Tom Davies <tomcecf@gmail.com>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?"Charles-H. Schulz" <charles.schulz@documentfoundation.org>
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?Paul <paulsteyn1@afrihost.co.za>
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