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There is much debate about whether software should be the subject of
patents, or rather, copyright/copyleft. The website has a
lot of very interesting material about this. It would be very
interesting to know where the Trump dynasty stands on that; could end
up making a lot of difference to the FLOSS communities and they way
they work!? 


On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 07:59 +0000, fudmer rieley wrote:
The Oracle purchase of Sun allows oracle to claim ownership in
application software which the whole world contributed to? 
Is that correct?

Under prior patent law, it was not the first to file but the first 
to invent the objects of a patent that had the valid claim to 
actual patent rights?  Under current law, I understand it 
now to be the first to file gets all?  Is that correct.

How does patent law work?  

A claim is made by filing the claim with the patent authority

Who has a valid claim one who invents or one who files.

Think of it this way.. 

MR. Island discovers how to make an island from the sand
found at the ocean bottom..  Mr. Island uses his discovery 
to produce a brand new island the size of the USA State 
of say Georgia, The Island is now in the middle of the 
Atlantic Ocean 450 miles off the shore of New York City. 
between London and New York City.  

Dr. Patent, LLB, a Lawyer, sees that the mind of Mr.
Island has produced [invented] a very valuable method, 
A method that many people would pay a lot of money to
know about because they too want to build their own 
private Island in the middle of the ocean.  

Dr. Patent tells his congress, look guys I want to own the 
method Mr.  Island invented, please change the law so 
that i can own his method.  

Congress debated the issue and decided that many wealthy
people would like to own the products (inventions) of other
people´s minds; so Congress passed  a law that lets the
person who want to own the Island and the person who desire 
to own the useful method invented by someone, to be able to
claim ownership in the Island and in the method to produce
the island. 

Tangible property law created, out of thin air, ownership 
rights based on boundary of the property.
To claim ownership in the Island file that claim in the form 
of a deed.  

Intangible property law created, out of thin air, ownership 
rights in useful ways to do something. 
To claim ownership in the method used to build the Island,
file a patent. 

So on with the story, 
So to claim ownership in the Island (Mr. Island built) Dr. 
Patent filed a deed, and had a judge order Mr. Island off
the Island, because the island is now owned by Dr. Patent
This is so, Dr. Patent told the judge, because I have the only
deed ever filed to claim ownership in the land. Mr. island 
has no deed.   The judge had no choice but to evict Mr. 

Dr. Patent told Mr. Island, if you will file a claim of ownership
(that is, a patent) in the method used (invented) to build
your Island, I will pay you enough for it, so you can live
comfortably ever after (say $1 million USD)-.   

Mr. Island was broke having been kicked off his own Island
so he signed the patent claim Dr. Patent wrote up for him, 
with the Patent office.  The patent office issued to Mr. 
Island a patent, which Mr Island then sold to Dr. Patent
for $1 Million USD). 

So Mr. Island went to another place in the Atlantic and 
used the method Mr. island invented to build another 
Island.. and filed  a deed claiming he owned it.  

As soon as Mr. Island moved onto his new Island, Dr. 
Patent filed a patent lawsuit, claiming Mr. Island, infringed
¨the method to build Islands¨ patent owned by Dr. Patent.
The patent court awarded Dr. Patent $1 million USD for 
patent infringement and ordered Mr. Island to pay 
Dr. Patent $1 million USD before the day was out.

From thin air the congress obliged Dr. Patent, and converted
public lands into private ownership by writing the 
tangible property law (DEEDs) and again from thin air
congress created a way to for investors and others to own
the products of the human mind of inventors 
(methods of doing things) intangible property law. 

Dr. Patent licensed the right to use the patent he obtained
from Mr. Island for $500,000; thus far 50 islands have been
built using Mr. Islands method owned by Dr. Patent. 
$500,000 * 50 = $25,000,000 profit earned by Dr. Patent.

In short, Congress made it possible for Dr. Patent to steal
both Mr. Island´s Island and his invention of a method to 
build such an island. 

The story explains why the top 1% own as much as the 
entire 99% other percent own. 

Patents and deeds transfer ownership from the public to 
the private domain, and ownership transfers wealth from 
non owners. 


On Tue, 4/18/17, toki <> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] i have questions about licensing in
 Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2017, 8:44 PM
 On 04/17/2017 09:01 AM, nasrin
 khaksar wrote:
 > i heard sometimes that
 openoffice license is license of oracle company.
 Oracle purchased Sun. That
 purchase included the trademarks, copyrights,
 and other intellectual property rights held by
 After a
 couple of years, Oracle donated, including
 trademarks, copyright, and other intellectual
 property rights to The
 Apache Software
 Which means
 that Oracles does owns neither Apache Open Office nor
 However, Oracle does own Java, which is used by
 both LibreOffice and
 Apache Open Office. 
 Given a couple of somewhat bizarre legal theories,
 supported by, what shall be termed
 "interesting' court decisions, an
 extremely shaky legal theory can be made that
 Oracle owns both
 LibreOffice, and Apache
 Open Office. As much as I'd like to think that
 Oracle has persuaded itself that ownership of
 FLOSS is not possible, I
 wouldn't put it
 past them to be willing to squander away a trillion or
 so dollars, in lawsuits to assert ownership of
 LibreOffice, Apache
 OpenOffice, and other
 FLOSS software that it finds either inconvenience,
 or a potential cash cow.
 > is it true?
 There is an apocryphal story of a first legal
 intern being told examine
 a software
 license. In researching the license, he asked: "Is
 there any
 way, shape, or form, in which
 Oracle can assert control of the
 software?" Upon being told that Oracle was
 purchasing the company that
 made the
 software whose license was being analysed, the intern said;
 can not recommend accepting this
 license, because it will depend upon
 As an Oracle license, all terms and conditions are subject
 their specific interpretation, which
 usually comes down to: "All your
 they belong to us".  Said intern was dully blacklisted
 by the
 company. A decade later, one of the
 members of the board of directors
 himself across the dinner table from said intern. The member
 the intern that his prediction about
 what Oracle would do, turned out to
 valid, with disastrous consequences to the company.
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