Re: [libreoffice-users] Paragraph styles for list styles

On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 15:34 -0300, Carlos Pita wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> >     Was this documentation in a Styles chapter of the Writer Guide
> > perhaps? If so, where in this guide was it located? If not, what
>
> It's quoted verbatim from LibreOffice Writer Guide 3.4.x, chapter 6 or
> 7 (sorry, I'm not able to access the file just right now).
>
> Dan, I understand how styles work, my problem is more about how
> provided styles are intended to be used. What is confusing to me is
> that the "Numbering N" or "List N" paragraph styles come with
> increasing indentation levels, suggesting that they're intended to
> somehow nest lists up to the 5th level instead of being used in a
> close 1-1 relationship with corresponding list styles, as can be
> inferred from the guide.
>
> Gary has clarified the issue. Perhaps the styles should all be
> indented the same by default and just control the interline spacing
> and things like that.
>
> Another related issue is the purpose of the "List N" vs "List N Cont"
> paragraph styles. From the indentation in the styles one can infer
> what follows:
>
> | aditional space here
> First item                             <--- Start style
>
> Internal item                       <--- base style
>    Continuation of internal item    <--- Cont style
>
> Last item                            <--- End style
> | aditional space here
>
> That cont seems to be intended to follow the base style is suggested
> by the default indentation of the manually formatted lists. For
> example:
>
> 2. Iternal item
>     More text
>
>     Continuation of item 2
>
> The indentation provided by the Cont style is exactly the indentation
> needed by "Continuation of item 2" in a manually formatted list in
> order to be left aligned with the item text. But this seems misleading
> again, because the guide explains that Start will be usually linked to
> Cont which will be linked to End, for lists where a single style (the
> base style) isn't enough. Briefly, the alternative interpretations
> are:
>
> Start->base(->Cont)->End
>
> vs
>
> Start->Cont->End   or   base  (for simple formatting requirements)
>
> I'll copy the relevant passages of the documentation for this last
> issue asap, but you can see that the problem is essentially the same:
> default style indentation that seems to be at odds with the usage
> described by the guide, maybe because of historical reasons.
>
> Thanks a lot
> --
> Carlos

     Yes, I see what you mean. Personally, I think this is unnecessarily
complex and difficult to understand. It is not the Writer Guide. It is
these styles:
Numbering 1, Numbering 1 Cont. Numbering 1 End, and Numbering 1 Start. 
     What seems strange is that the Indent & Spacing for Numbering 1 and
Numbering 1 Cont. are identical. What was the reason for this? I also
not that Numbering 1 Start has a 2 line spacing (0.42cm) above it, and
Numbering 1 End has 2 line spacing (0.42) below it. That also seems to
be more than needed.
     If your Writer Guide used ODT format instead of PDF, you would see
that we use three styles instead of four: 
OOoNum 123 Cont., OOoNum 123 Start, and OOoNum 123 End. It has its
strange point too: OOoNum 123 Start and OOoNum 123 Cont. have identical
Indent & Spacing entries.
     Perhaps I need to read what the Writer Guide mentions about this.
Chapters 6 and 7 are the Style chapters of WG.

--Dan

> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Dan Lewis <elderdanlewis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-05-09 at 23:45 -0300, Carlos Pita wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I find this description in the documentation very misleading:
> > >
> > > """
> > > Each of the list styles predefined in Writer has four associated
> > > paragraph styles. For example, the
> > > Numbering 1 list style is associated with four paragraph styles:
> > > Numbering 1
> > > Numbering 1 Cont.
> > > Numbering 1 End
> > > Numbering 1 Start
> > > """
> > >
> > > In what sense list style "Numbering 1" is related to paragraph styles
> > > "Numbering 1 *"? What one can see is that the N in paragraph styles
> > > "Numbering N *" is related to indentation level and not intended for
> > > working in tandem with the list style "Numbering N". One can use
> > > paragraph style "Numbering 1" with any of the list styles, because
> > > concerns seem to be completely orthogonal.
> > >
> > > Can you clarify the relationship between paragraph styles "Numbering N
> > > *" and list style "Numbering N"?
> > >
> > > What scenarios are paragraph styles "Numbering N *" and "List N *" intended for?
> > >
> > > Thank you a lot
> > > --
> > > Carlos
>
> > documentation did you mean?
> >     I think the answer you are seeking is found in the Styles and
> > Formating window.
> >     Use the F11 key to open it. There are several icons at the top; the
> > one of the left (Paragraph styles) is the one you want. At the bottom of
> > the window is a drop down list with Automatic selected by Default
> > (unless you have changed it). Select "All Styles". In that list you will
> > find the Numbering N * paragraph styles. Right click anyone of them and
> > select Modify from the context menu (it  is a pop up window.) Click the
> > "Outline & Numbering" tab. When you want to add a numbering or bullet
> > style to your paragraph style, you select it here.
> >     The paragraph style dictates the properties of the paragraph. The
> > numbering (or list [bullet]) style dictates the numbering that appears
> > at the beginning of each paragraph.
> >
> > --Dan
> >
> >
> > --
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