List Post Echoing (was RE: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base Help)

I am changing the subject - should have done that long ago.

Short answer: Whether a list service send out new posts to every e-mail
subscriber or suppresses those back to the originator of a new post is
a function of the list service software and available settings.

It has nothing to do with the e-mail system that is used to send the
post, so long as it is sent by e-mail.  Whether something else happens
in your e-mail client is independent of what the list-service does with
e-mailed posts it receives.

 - Dennis

LONGER NARRATIVE

Whether you see your own posts echoed by an e-mail list in your inbox has
 nothing to do with how they are sent to the list.  You see the posts on 
the lists here if you are a subscriber.  There may be options on the list to 
not echo posts from the sender back to the subscriber, but that is not the
default for *this* list.  

Also, if you as a sender have been moderated as
acceptable to the list, whether or not you have subscribed, your posts may
appear on a list but not echoed to you (because you are not a subscriber).
I don't know if this list is moderated that way.  A list that I moderate
does allow me to approve senders who are not subscribers, so their posts
don't have to go through moderation after that.

Finally, some lists allow subscribers to not receive any e-mail from the list,
especially if you have to be subscribed to send.  Then the way you read the
list is via the web interface to the list archive or by using a tool like 
GMANE, perhaps.

If you use the web interface on this list to post a message, you are not using
your e-mail client at all.  As far as I know, every e-mail subscriber, including
yourself, will receive the post that the list sends out to all subscribers,
when the post is made using the web-browser interface of this list. 

Everything above is totally about what the list service might or might not do.

Now about the sending e-mail system:

Whether your e-mail client retains its own copies of what you send somewhere
is independent of that.  I have my e-mail client file replies in the same
folder as the message I am replying to.  So I will see the reply that I sent
and I will see that same message echoed on the list itself (because of rules 
I have set for incoming mail from this list).  I use the first copy, of what
I sent and which shows up as soon as I do a send of my outbox contents, as a
reminder of what I am waiting for.  That is part of my e-mail ritual.

Sometimes, I keep the original that was sent because the list server modifies
the formatting of the ones it sends out (say, by forcing fixed maximum line
lengths and word-wrapping, something that, if this list did, would stop NoOp
from yelling at me, though the service doesn't know how to change a top post 
to any-thing else [;<).

I could have the reply that I sent simply be in my send-mail folder, but I 
would still receive the version that was sent to list subscribers by the
list.

It is conceivable that mail services might suppress what are obviously returns
of messages that were originated by the account receiving them.  That is pretty
freaky.  I hope it doesn't really happen that way.  I don't believe it happens
for Brian, because if it did he would have no expectation of receiving echoes
from any lists.  He is also not using a gmail address (though he could still be
using gmail as a sender).

There are many places where e-mail and list-service protocols act on the mails
sent from our outboxes in the chain of actions that has the list send posts to
subscribers and that has subscribers receive posts in their inboxes.  Some
components in this process can inject inappropriate actions that have unintended
consequences, simply because someone did not respect all of the distributed
variations and "fixed" something in the wrong place.  

Folklore about what is happening arises easily, because most of us never see
what happens from one end to the other, and think that everyone sees incoming
messages the same way, the way it was seen when it was sent.  It doesn't work
like that.  And, in general, it is not possible for a sender to anticipate
all of the variations of what folks will see when a single list post is sent.
Likewise, what a recipient sees need having little to do with what other
recipients might see.

So it goes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sigrid Carrera [mailto:sigrid.carrera@googlemail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 00:08
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base Help

Hi Brian, *, 

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 02:10:14 +0100
Brian Barker <b.m.barker@btinternet.com> wrote:

> At 12:01 15/09/2011 -0700, Tom Davies wrote:
> > The list is quite sophisticated enough to avoid sending you messages 
> > that you write.
>
> Does anyone believe this?  Fortunately it's rubbish, isn't it?

that is a "feature" of gmail and similar web services. (I know for
sure for gmail, but I think yahoo does this too.) Your email provider
"decides" that you don't need to see your original message, since you
wrote it yourself. So you only have the sent message in your
sent-folder to tell you, what you asked the list.

It has nothing to do with "how sophisticated" the list software is. 

Sigrid

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