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* Present:
    Hangout:  Andras, Bjoern, Michael M, Thorsten, Tsahi,
              Miklos, Adam, Kohei
    Phone:    Lionel, Eike, David, Norbert, Cloph, Petr,
              Pierre-Eric, Kendy, Tibbylickle

Trying etherpad for the 1st time: cf. unusual formatting.

* Completed Action Items
    + poke at AFM startup / fontcache issue (Caolan)
    + invite pepp for next week (Michael)
    + working on Date API fix for rc3 (Eike/Michael S)
        [ made it into rc3 - many thanks to all concerned !
          Eike, Lionel, Michael S ]
    + sidebar option should default enabled it when enabled (Kendy)
    + sent vtune details to Pierre-Eric (Bjoern)
        [ pending response from Intel ]
    + talk with Robinson Ask => fdo integration / flow (Joel)
        [ doesn't particularly like moving all bugs -> ask
          may overload the admins & change our workflow,
          instead move ahead with feedback ]
    + get windows build-bot setup (Thorsten)
        [ one machine sent to Cloph, another doing
          it's first build, and nice howto from Kendy, which
                is here: ]

* Pending Action items:
    + get remaining GOSC guys introduced on the QA list (Cedric)
    + fdo#60858 needs input (Astron)
    + file a bug to split out the ruler-fix piece (Cedric)
    + file svg / help->about issue in master as 4.2 MAB (Astron)
    + improve configure to avoid versioning mistakes (Cloph)

* Release Engineering update (Cloph)
        + 3.6.7 rc2 update, prepared to be announced
    + 4.1.0 rc3 status ...
                        + ready to be pushed to mirros after 3.6.7 has been done
        + pre-announce rc3 tomorrow
                   + delays down to last minute iterator and indexing fix for Windows.
        + editing master-pages => release notes, have fix in master

* Should we kill TDF .deb builds ? (Bjoern)
        + pkgs are lame, neither Rene nor Bjoern working on that
        + direct people to Rene's builds / PPAs instead ?
        + long run: fix up-stream pkging to be more distro-like
        + significant differences Debian -> TDF (Lionel)
                + pwrt. internal libraries / embedded copies
                + nice to have a comparison to see where the bug is
                + TDF builds run anywhere; Debian/Ubuntu builds not as much
        + what is the real problem ? (Michael)
                + someone wants to install TDF packages, and uninstall them (Bjoern)
                + could we add a provide + a conflict (Michael)
                + people try to un-install the distro package - but remove
                  the meta-package, de-install the meta-package
                  (or forget pkgs like uno/ure which are not globbed by libreoffice*)
                + problems are inevitable for ISVs (Lionel)
        + just fixed 2x problems with Debian dependencies (Petr)
        + Stephan fixed one before vacation (Michael)
        + instead chance the pkging - to use a single name just
                libreoffice+ver everywhere (Petr)
                        + get rid of ugly core-01 etc. pkgs - many of them with no ideas
                                of what is inside them
AI: come up with proposal for what to do (Rene, Bjoern, Petr)

* QA update (Joel)
                + did the auto-feedback work for the next round of needinfo bugs
                        + not closed yet, wait a month
                + counting almost done for the contest, so we should know winners soon.
                + feedback bits (thanks Joren for helping with this)
                        + Robinson kindly committed to do the initial work
                                + want it as simple as possible to start with, no twitter
                                + happy + sad face etc. for sending general feedback.
                                + a 'get involved' button.
                + button on the 'ask' site for 'report a bug'
                        + admin button to move an ask question to FDO automatically.
                        + ask admins are stretched already
                        + let users pre-sort bug vs. ask etc.
    + Need_Advice bugs input appreciated (more of them now)
        + 10 bugs (+0) in that state (thanks)
        +113    -95    (+18 overall)
        many thanks to the top five:
            ign_christian   13
            David Tardon    13
            James            6
            Caolán McNamara  5
            Michael Stahl    5

* round-trip interop. work (Tsahi/Adam/Miklos)
                + round-trip interop. of OOXML documents very important to us (Tsahi)
                + focusing on preserving data, to remove any fear of data loss
                + plan is to add missing data elements to the internal model
                        + initially hidden, without rendering - just import/export
                        + then incrementally add editing.
                + needed to add various MSO properties, or MCE / alternates
                + considering adding them to the data model.
                + currently several commits: some approved / some blocked
                + concern is around ODF; should we serialize some of this mess there ?
                        + and pay a significant cost for doing that ?
                + some concerns (Miklos)
                        + in general new elements in the data model / UNO API, we always
                          updated the ODF filters too.
                        + for DOCX filter we have to change the UNO API - because it is a pure
                                UNO component.
                        + one compromise might be do-able:
                                add a special property that is a container for these; add a:
                                sequence<string,Any> - and document in the IDL: "anything here will
                                not be serialized to ODF"
                        + perhaps we can live with that.
                + can we abuse the UNO tunnel for this (Eike)
                        + sw already depends on writerfilter
                + need to discard the foreign properties on a object when it is mutated
                        or work harder to determine what to do (Michael)
                + need to add a new property to each object ? (Adam)
                        + yes, so - add a single new property 'InteropGrabBag' (Miklos)
                        + with this container in the core, wouldn't have to touch the core much
                          except to invalidate it
AI:  + write a trivial example for paragraph properties (Miklos)
                        + invalidate on copy/mutate - and load/save to OOXML
                + is the main motivation the smart-art, or other things ? (Kendy)
                        + nope - it's everything (Michael)
                        + also interested in correct rendering, but preserve first (Tsahi)
                + really sequence of sequences<string,any>

* Easy hacks (Bjoern)
    + fdo#62192
        + need alerts / annotations for attached patches ?
                        + ask Cloph to provide some input on patches that are not responded to
                        + have 43/339 Easy Hacks without action for > 1 year, should we review them 
                        + => discuss next week
                        + what's the issue with old ones (Lionel)
                                + concern around 'easy to fix' -> but not fixed yet, users get 
upset (Joel)
                                + not interested in upset users who complain about lack of trivial 
fixes (Michael)
                        + concern wrt. lack of sexiness of easy hacks (Bjoern)
                                + don't we just need to rotate the front-page of easy hacks ? 
AI:     + rotate easy hacks on (Joel)

* Integrating Chrome's performance mgmt framework (Pierre-Eric)
        + have integrated it, quite simple, would like to merge it up-stream
        + useful / can observe async events
        + would like to ask the user to run the tool to get more detail on what's up
        + can use simple macros, re-use Chrome's ? with a small set of them, we can use them 
        + a menu entry for start / stop the profile (?)
                + the JSON files have to be rendered by Chromium: chrome://tracing/
        + very small piece of C++ code
                + add trace-points around the code, and measure times between them.
                + begin/end event pairs around the place
                + async start + async end: start a timer, end a timer etc.
        + what is the run-time cost (Norbert)
                + check one boolean at the trace-points (Pierre-Eric)
                + and light footprint size-wize ? (Norbert)
                        + two strings, category + name + thread-id + event type
                        + can add JSON meta-data too if you want.
        + prefer to add it under debug build at first (Norbert)
                + if people like it, make it more widely available
                + timing in debug code is very different (Pierre-Eric)
AI: + polish & push to a feature branch (Pierre-Eric)
        + had this rtl_logfile in the past that did timings (Michael)
                + we're killing this (Bjoern, Norbert)

* GSOC update (Cedric)
                + should start merging student's changes into master around now
                                + don't want a huge rush just before the mid-term
                        + after the merge - continue to work on master ? (Norbert)
                                + depends on the student & their preference (Kendy)
                                + would like to encourage working on master (Norbert)
                        + should encourage students to start working on master
                + mid-term is 29th July - until end of the week.
                + encourage students to blog etc.

* UX input (Astron)

* Certification Program (Stephan/Kendy/Bjoern)

* Coverity interview
        + in Markus' absence volunteer Norbert
                + AI (done) reply to coverity about accepting their request. (Norbert)

        + had a couple of requests for access, if not someone known:
          an active committer, denied access until more of a track record.
                + seems to make sense.

* IAccessible2 work
        + small & well contained: under 10k LOC
        + continued concern from around the place re: odd headers
        + should be compile-time conditional until that is solved
        + all code must have a clear LGPLv3 or ALv2 license & origin details in commit
        + should retain the old Java code until above mess is sorted out.
        + help merging much appreciated.

* Gerrit migration (Bjoern)
        + infra guys put gerrit on another machine
        + seems to be working, except that groups are not there
                + migrate now - no-one could push to master, except admins
                + need to fix this before migration.
        + other missing bits:
                + theming, gitweb can be missed for a few days, buildbot [!]
                + need to sort it out.
        + not involved in gerrit migration (Cloph)
        + suspect that data is stored with gerrit itself (Norbert)
AI:  + will take a look at it (Norbert)

* Open 4.2 MAB
    + 1/1

* Open 4.1 MAB
        + 3 (of 55) older 7/52 7/48 2/42 4/39 5/37 7/32 3/26 3/23 4/17
             5%           14%  15%

* Open 4.0 MAB
        + 12 (of 137) older 12/135 12/134 12/133 12/132 16/132 14/130 16/129
             9%              9%     9%     9%     9%     12%    11%    13%

* 3.6 most annoying bugs ...
        + 60 (of 243) older 62/243 60/241 57/238 63/237 65/236 68/235 67/232
             25%             25%    25%    24%    27%    28%    29%    30%

* Bibisected bugs open: whiteboard 'bibsected'
        + 34 (of 124) older 34/123 36/122 38/119 37/114 39/114 41/112 36/105 35/100

* all bugs tagged with 'regression'
    + 287(-11) bugs open of 1740(+17) total

    * ~Component   count net *
            Writer - 92 (+0)
       Libreoffice - 28 (+1)
      Presentation - 25 (-1)
          Database - 24 (-2)
       Spreadsheet - 24 (-3)
           Crashes - 21 (-1)
           Drawing - 16 (-2)
           Borders - 13 (-1)
             BASIC -  3 (+0)
         Migration -  3 (+0)

        + Migration:

--  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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