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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Incorrectly translated string in many languages


Hi Mihkel,

For Kazakh latin script/layout - no official version yet, haven't
heard of any progress in that area, only drafts/suggestions were
announced.

For now it is safe to consider only current Kazakh layout which is
based on Cyrillic script,

We have a comma mapped to the main keyboard's `6` key which gives `;`
when pressed with Shift
(and period on `7` key, with Shift gives `:`).

Thanks for your initiative!

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 2:37 PM Mihkel Tõnnov <mihhkel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm preparing a patch to add the same shortcut exceptions [1] for more
> languages where a dedicated semicolon key most likely isn't available on
> the keyboard - meaning that more languages would then also need to update
> the translation of the string mentioned in previous mail. While some
> locales appear rather clear-cut cases, there are others where I have
> unanswered questions.
> [1] Ctrl+comma and Shift+Ctrl+comma instead of Ctrl+semicolon and
> Shift+Ctrl+semicolon - for Mac, substitute Command for Ctrl.
>
> I have CC'd people from relevant language teams (as far as they are listed
> on our Language Teams wiki page) in case they are somehow not members of
> this list (sorry if anyone is annoyed by getting this email twice). Replies
> should only be sent to the list, though, not to everyone in CC.
>
> Do tell if you have objections to adding this change for your language, for
> example because everyone in your locale actually uses a US keyboard (or
> another layout that has a dedicated semicolon key). I tried to do a bit
> more research this time, but Wikipedia, Google, Microsoft keyboard layouts
> page [2] and various local IT-shops' websites are no match for someone who
> actually knows the local situation.
> [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/globalization/windows-keyboard-layouts
>
> == Should be rather clear-cut, but asking for confirmation just in case ==
> Aragonese (an) - presumably most users have Spanish layout?
> Asturian (ast) - ... Asturian layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
> Bavarian (bar) - ... German layout?
> Catalan (ca) - ... Catalan layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
> Catalan (ca_VALENCIA) - ... Catalan layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
> Friulian (fur) - ... Friulian layout (on physical Italian keyboard)?
> Galician (gl) - ... Spanish layout?
> Greenlandic (kl) - ... Nordic/Danish layout?
> Nahuatl (nah) - ... Latin American layout?
> Sorbian, Lower (dsb) - ... Sorbian layout (on German physical keyboard)?
> Sorbian, Upper (hsb) - ... Sorbian layout (on German physical keyboard)?
> Venetian (vec) - ... Italian layout?
>
> == Unclear which layout the majority of users have ==
> Abkhazian (ab) - which layout(s)/keyboard(s)?
> Basque (eu) - according to Wikipedia, ca. 1M in Spain and ca. 0.2M in
> France - so Spanish layout?
> Chechen (ce) - which layout(s)/keyboard(s)?
> Guarani (gug) - according to Wikipedia, used in Paraguay, Bolivia,
> Argentina, Brazil - so Latin American or pt-BR?
> Kurmanji (kmr_LATN) - according to Wikipedia, used in Turkey, Syria, Iraq,
> Iran - is there a common layout?
> Luxembourgish (lb) - according to Wikipedia, used in Luxembourg and parts
> of Germany, Belgium, France - is there a common layout?
> Macedonian (mk) - Macedonian layout or something else?
> Occitan (oc) - according to Wikipedia, used in France, Spain, Italy, Monaco
> (For all of these, see also the notes at the end of this email.)
>
> == Languages written using multiple scripts ==
> Mongolian (mn) - Cyrillic and Mongolian script. LibO localization is in
> Cyrillic. Period, comma and colon keys exist on Cyrillic layout (however
> Shift+comma produces "8"), so Ctrl+period and Ctrl+comma / Ctrl+colon could
> be used? The Mongolian script layout is very different, and I found
> conflicting information about whether or not it has a dedicated semicolon
> key (seems to have a period key, though). If it has semicolon as well, then
> Ctrl+period and Ctrl+semicolon could be used. (See also the note at the end
> of this email.)
> Uzbek (uz) - Latin and Cyrillic. LibO localization is in Latin script (and
> the Uzbek Latin layout has a semicolon key) - but reportedly Cyrillic
> script is still much used, so are the shortcut exceptions needed
> nonetheless? (See also the notes at the end of this email.)
>
> == Layouts without comma key ==
> Most Cyrillic layouts lack a dedicated comma key as well as a semicolon key
> (with Shift+period producing a comma), so another shortcut should be found
> for inserting date/time. What does Excel use (if it has a localized
> version)? If MS documentation is correct, then e.g. in Russian Excel,
> Ctrl+Shift+colon inserts the time and Ctrl+Shift+semicolon the date (but as
> colon is produced by Shift+6 on Russian layout and semicolon by Shift+4,
> then presumably these are essentially Ctrl+Shift+6 and Ctrl+Shift+4).
> Azeri (az) - Latin script, but no comma key - here, too, comma is produced
> by Shift+period.
> Belarussian (be)
> Kazakh (kk) - adoption of Latin script in progress? Is there already a
> commonly used layout for the Latin version?
> Kyrgyz (ky)
> Tajik (tg)
> Tatar (tt)
> Ukrainian (uk)
>
> == A few important notes about all of the above ==
> 1) As mentioned in my previous mail, the localized shortcuts depend solely
> on LibO UI language (for now). So until this gets corrected, any added
> localized shortcuts won't have any effect if the user has the UI in
> English, for example.
> 2a) Consequently (if I understand it correctly), for languages like
> Mongolian or Uzbek that use multiple scripts and where LibO is only
> localized into one of those, without mentioning the script in the language
> code, the localized shortcuts would apply also for the other script(s) of
> the language. If the layouts don't have any suitable keys in common, then
> several shortcuts could be defined for one action - as long as they don't
> conflict with each other - so that one shortcut is inaccessible when using
> one layout, and the other is inaccessible when using the other layout.
> 2b) In principle, the same approach could also be taken if a language
> community uses various same-script layouts with different punctuation keys
> (e.g. French vs. Spanish/Italian).
> 2c) Implementing two sets of shortcuts would make the translation of the
> aforementioned tip-of-the-day a bit longer, though, as both shortcut pairs
> should then be mentioned.
> 3) Extra question for Mac users among you: is the Mac layout for your
> language the same as in Windows/Linux? If needed, shortcuts can be defined
> only for Mac or only for Windows/Linux (though apparently not only for
> Linux or only for Windows).
>
> Best regards,
> Mihkel
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Incorrectly translated string in many languagesMihkel Tõnnov <mihhkel@gmail.com>
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