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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Incorrectly translated string in many languages


Hi all,

I'm preparing a patch to add the same shortcut exceptions [1] for more
languages where a dedicated semicolon key most likely isn't available on
the keyboard - meaning that more languages would then also need to update
the translation of the string mentioned in previous mail. While some
locales appear rather clear-cut cases, there are others where I have
unanswered questions.
[1] Ctrl+comma and Shift+Ctrl+comma instead of Ctrl+semicolon and
Shift+Ctrl+semicolon - for Mac, substitute Command for Ctrl.

I have CC'd people from relevant language teams (as far as they are listed
on our Language Teams wiki page) in case they are somehow not members of
this list (sorry if anyone is annoyed by getting this email twice). Replies
should only be sent to the list, though, not to everyone in CC.

Do tell if you have objections to adding this change for your language, for
example because everyone in your locale actually uses a US keyboard (or
another layout that has a dedicated semicolon key). I tried to do a bit
more research this time, but Wikipedia, Google, Microsoft keyboard layouts
page [2] and various local IT-shops' websites are no match for someone who
actually knows the local situation.
[2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/globalization/windows-keyboard-layouts

== Should be rather clear-cut, but asking for confirmation just in case ==
Aragonese (an) - presumably most users have Spanish layout?
Asturian (ast) - ... Asturian layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
Bavarian (bar) - ... German layout?
Catalan (ca) - ... Catalan layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
Catalan (ca_VALENCIA) - ... Catalan layout (on physical Spanish keyboard)?
Friulian (fur) - ... Friulian layout (on physical Italian keyboard)?
Galician (gl) - ... Spanish layout?
Greenlandic (kl) - ... Nordic/Danish layout?
Nahuatl (nah) - ... Latin American layout?
Sorbian, Lower (dsb) - ... Sorbian layout (on German physical keyboard)?
Sorbian, Upper (hsb) - ... Sorbian layout (on German physical keyboard)?
Venetian (vec) - ... Italian layout?

== Unclear which layout the majority of users have ==
Abkhazian (ab) - which layout(s)/keyboard(s)?
Basque (eu) - according to Wikipedia, ca. 1M in Spain and ca. 0.2M in
France - so Spanish layout?
Chechen (ce) - which layout(s)/keyboard(s)?
Guarani (gug) - according to Wikipedia, used in Paraguay, Bolivia,
Argentina, Brazil - so Latin American or pt-BR?
Kurmanji (kmr_LATN) - according to Wikipedia, used in Turkey, Syria, Iraq,
Iran - is there a common layout?
Luxembourgish (lb) - according to Wikipedia, used in Luxembourg and parts
of Germany, Belgium, France - is there a common layout?
Macedonian (mk) - Macedonian layout or something else?
Occitan (oc) - according to Wikipedia, used in France, Spain, Italy, Monaco
(For all of these, see also the notes at the end of this email.)

== Languages written using multiple scripts ==
Mongolian (mn) - Cyrillic and Mongolian script. LibO localization is in
Cyrillic. Period, comma and colon keys exist on Cyrillic layout (however
Shift+comma produces "8"), so Ctrl+period and Ctrl+comma / Ctrl+colon could
be used? The Mongolian script layout is very different, and I found
conflicting information about whether or not it has a dedicated semicolon
key (seems to have a period key, though). If it has semicolon as well, then
Ctrl+period and Ctrl+semicolon could be used. (See also the note at the end
of this email.)
Uzbek (uz) - Latin and Cyrillic. LibO localization is in Latin script (and
the Uzbek Latin layout has a semicolon key) - but reportedly Cyrillic
script is still much used, so are the shortcut exceptions needed
nonetheless? (See also the notes at the end of this email.)

== Layouts without comma key ==
Most Cyrillic layouts lack a dedicated comma key as well as a semicolon key
(with Shift+period producing a comma), so another shortcut should be found
for inserting date/time. What does Excel use (if it has a localized
version)? If MS documentation is correct, then e.g. in Russian Excel,
Ctrl+Shift+colon inserts the time and Ctrl+Shift+semicolon the date (but as
colon is produced by Shift+6 on Russian layout and semicolon by Shift+4,
then presumably these are essentially Ctrl+Shift+6 and Ctrl+Shift+4).
Azeri (az) - Latin script, but no comma key - here, too, comma is produced
by Shift+period.
Belarussian (be)
Kazakh (kk) - adoption of Latin script in progress? Is there already a
commonly used layout for the Latin version?
Kyrgyz (ky)
Tajik (tg)
Tatar (tt)
Ukrainian (uk)

== A few important notes about all of the above ==
1) As mentioned in my previous mail, the localized shortcuts depend solely
on LibO UI language (for now). So until this gets corrected, any added
localized shortcuts won't have any effect if the user has the UI in
English, for example.
2a) Consequently (if I understand it correctly), for languages like
Mongolian or Uzbek that use multiple scripts and where LibO is only
localized into one of those, without mentioning the script in the language
code, the localized shortcuts would apply also for the other script(s) of
the language. If the layouts don't have any suitable keys in common, then
several shortcuts could be defined for one action - as long as they don't
conflict with each other - so that one shortcut is inaccessible when using
one layout, and the other is inaccessible when using the other layout.
2b) In principle, the same approach could also be taken if a language
community uses various same-script layouts with different punctuation keys
(e.g. French vs. Spanish/Italian).
2c) Implementing two sets of shortcuts would make the translation of the
aforementioned tip-of-the-day a bit longer, though, as both shortcut pairs
should then be mentioned.
3) Extra question for Mac users among you: is the Mac layout for your
language the same as in Windows/Linux? If needed, shortcuts can be defined
only for Mac or only for Windows/Linux (though apparently not only for
Linux or only for Windows).

Best regards,
Mihkel

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Follow-Ups:
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Incorrectly translated string in many languagesJoan Montané <joan@montane.cat>
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Incorrectly translated string in many languagesBaurzhan Muftakhidinov <baurthefirst@gmail.com>
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