Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreLogo localization

Hi,

LibreLogo in 4.0.1 will support Asian and CTL languages, depending
from the language of the user interface, and (Western, Asian, CTL)
languages of the document. You have to change the Western language of
the document/paragraph to [None], if the user interface of LibreOffice
is in this Western language, for example, to test Japanese Logo
commands in LibreOffice with English UI. (See
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61376, where I have
attached a simple Japanese test file with these language settings.)

Especially CTL and Asian languages may have special problems or
requirements, so, please, inform me about them.
By the way, here is an interesting article about the importance of
native language programming, thanks to Kim Bastin for the link:

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/02/arabic-programming-language.html

Best regards,
László

2013/1/14 Németh László <nemeth.lacko@gmail.com>:
> Hi Naruhiko,
>
> It seems, the main problem is the western based language detection. I'm
> afraid, there is no  method to detect the direction of the translation here.
> We can detect the language of the LibreOffice installation, and use
> Japanese. I will test it with RC1, and report the result.
> Many thanks for your mail.
>
> Best regards,
> László
>
> 2013/1/14 Naruhiko Ogasawara <naruoga@gmail.com>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> >
> > I'm very sorry that I had misunderstood about "magic" icon feature of
> > LibreLogo.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Dear Németh László,
> >
> > Please remove "ja" in your LibreLogo.py if you have already added.
> >
> > Now we, Japanese community decided we'll postpone to support LibreLogo
> > "magic" icon translation feature.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Details:
> >
> > We, Japanese community has two problem:
> >
> > Problem 1: Which is primary: English or Japanese? (maybe Japanese)
> > Problem 2: How we can select document language is Japanese?
> >
> >
> >
> > The help [1] tell us:
> >
> > "It expands and upper case Logo commands in the Writer document. Change
> > the
> > language of the document (Tools » Options » Language Settings » Languages
> > » Western) and click on this icon to translate the Logo program to the
> > selected
> > language."
> >
> >
> > * Problem 1 *
> >
> > My big misunderstanding is translation direction: I thought this button
> > let
> > local-language command or short aliases TO English, primary language.
> > But it's not correct.
> >
> > Please let me confirm, if we have:
> >
> > FORWARD=すすむ|forward|fd
> >
> > and the document language is Japanese, all of following Logo code:
> >
> > すすむ 10
> > forward 10
> > fd 10
> >
> > should be changed:
> >
> > すすむ 10
> > すすむ 10
> > すすむ 10
> >
> > In the other words, the first word should be chosen.  Correct?
> > It means Japanese command is primary, and others are alias.
> >
> >
> > If so, according to difference of syntax of English and Japanese,
> > it's very hard to use Logo in Japanese only word-by-word translation.
> >
> > Small example; operator NOT is prefix, but in Japanese, directly
> > translated word "ではない" is postfix (a > 10 ではない).  That's
> > why we have to choose to translate NOT very declarative words like
> > "the following expression is not correct."
> >
> > It's deep problem, not only the translation issue, that's why
> > we want to postpone to apply "magic" icon feature for Japanese.
> >
> >
> > So, what caused if we'll use below?
> >
> > FORWARD=forward|すすむ|fd
> >
> > If the line means "forward" is a primary ("magic" icon changes
> > "すすむ" to FORWARD), our problem will be small.
> > Because young flexible brain can easily accept English command
> > if they have good entrypoints, Japanese localization might be.
> >
> >
> >
> > * Problem 2:
> >
> > It's not so serious.  Just a question.
> >
> > As help [1] says, LibreLogo choose their language to see "western,"
> > but, you might know, some languages (Japanese also) is in "Asian"
> > or "CTL."
> > How LibreLogo knows our document is in Japanese?
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ja/libo_help/swriter/librelogo.po/translate/#unit=33620860
> >
> >
> > Sorry to spend long time to read my long mail.
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Naruhiko Ogasawara (naruoga@gmail.com)

2013/1/14 Németh László <nemeth.lacko@gmail.com>:
> Hi Naruhiko,
>
> It seems, the main problem is the western based language detection. I'm
> afraid, there is no  method to detect the direction of the translation here.
> We can detect the language of the LibreOffice installation, and use
> Japanese. I will test it with RC1, and report the result.
> Many thanks for your mail.
>
> Best regards,
> László
>
> 2013/1/14 Naruhiko Ogasawara <naruoga@gmail.com>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> >
> > I'm very sorry that I had misunderstood about "magic" icon feature of
> > LibreLogo.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Dear Németh László,
> >
> > Please remove "ja" in your LibreLogo.py if you have already added.
> >
> > Now we, Japanese community decided we'll postpone to support LibreLogo
> > "magic" icon translation feature.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Details:
> >
> > We, Japanese community has two problem:
> >
> > Problem 1: Which is primary: English or Japanese? (maybe Japanese)
> > Problem 2: How we can select document language is Japanese?
> >
> >
> >
> > The help [1] tell us:
> >
> > "It expands and upper case Logo commands in the Writer document. Change
> > the
> > language of the document (Tools » Options » Language Settings » Languages
> > » Western) and click on this icon to translate the Logo program to the
> > selected
> > language."
> >
> >
> > * Problem 1 *
> >
> > My big misunderstanding is translation direction: I thought this button
> > let
> > local-language command or short aliases TO English, primary language.
> > But it's not correct.
> >
> > Please let me confirm, if we have:
> >
> > FORWARD=すすむ|forward|fd
> >
> > and the document language is Japanese, all of following Logo code:
> >
> > すすむ 10
> > forward 10
> > fd 10
> >
> > should be changed:
> >
> > すすむ 10
> > すすむ 10
> > すすむ 10
> >
> > In the other words, the first word should be chosen.  Correct?
> > It means Japanese command is primary, and others are alias.
> >
> >
> > If so, according to difference of syntax of English and Japanese,
> > it's very hard to use Logo in Japanese only word-by-word translation.
> >
> > Small example; operator NOT is prefix, but in Japanese, directly
> > translated word "ではない" is postfix (a > 10 ではない).  That's
> > why we have to choose to translate NOT very declarative words like
> > "the following expression is not correct."
> >
> > It's deep problem, not only the translation issue, that's why
> > we want to postpone to apply "magic" icon feature for Japanese.
> >
> >
> > So, what caused if we'll use below?
> >
> > FORWARD=forward|すすむ|fd
> >
> > If the line means "forward" is a primary ("magic" icon changes
> > "すすむ" to FORWARD), our problem will be small.
> > Because young flexible brain can easily accept English command
> > if they have good entrypoints, Japanese localization might be.
> >
> >
> >
> > * Problem 2:
> >
> > It's not so serious.  Just a question.
> >
> > As help [1] says, LibreLogo choose their language to see "western,"
> > but, you might know, some languages (Japanese also) is in "Asian"
> > or "CTL."
> > How LibreLogo knows our document is in Japanese?
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ja/libo_help/swriter/librelogo.po/translate/#unit=33620860
> >
> >
> > Sorry to spend long time to read my long mail.
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Naruhiko Ogasawara (naruoga@gmail.com)

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