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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations

Tom Davies <tomdavies04 -AT- yahoo.co.uk>
Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:39:56 +0000 (GMT)

HI :)
Ouch!! Sorry!  Please ignore my previous email and if you get a response from the LibreOffice 
subscription place then please just delete that too (unless you want to join in the fun there too) 
and please accept my apologies.  That was really embarrasing, sorry.  

Apols and regards from
Tom :)

________________________________
From: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Pierre Slamich <pierre.slamich@gmail.com>; "l10n+subscribe@global.libreoffice.org" 
<l10n+subscribe@global.libreoffice.org> 
Cc: Hannie Dumoleyn <lafeber-dumoleyn2@zonnet.nl>; Ubuntu Translators 
<ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com> 
Sent: Thursday, 17 January 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations

Hi :)
I finally tracked down the LibreOffice Internationalisation Mailing List!  Does the idea of 
semi-mechanising translations seem like a good idea for LibreOffice?  I don't know what systems 
are currently being used so please forgive me if you are already doing this or if it's a terrible 
idea.

Regards from 

Tom :)

________________________________
From: Pierre Slamich <pierre.slamich@gmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> 
Cc: Hannie Dumoleyn <lafeber-dumoleyn2@zonnet.nl>; Ubuntu Translators 
<ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com> 
Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 16:45
Subject: Re: Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations

Hi Tom,
The approach works best for large files where the scale effect works best vs manual translations. 
We have tested it on documentation and related stuff so far. It works on virtually any po file, 
but you need to check whether it outputs translations good enough to actually reduce translation 
load.
Feel free to forward the original mail.

Pierre

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi :)

Would this semi-mechanising tool be good for other projects to use?  Is it good for translating 
websites, wiki's or printed documentation or all 3?  

If it's good for other projects is anyone here on the main LibreOffice LoCos mailing list?  
Could one of you approach them to suggest it?  If not please let me know.  
Regards from
Tom :)

________________________________
From: Pierre Slamich <pierre.slamich@gmail.com>
To: Hannie Dumoleyn <lafeber-dumoleyn2@zonnet.nl> 
Cc: Ubuntu Translators <ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com> 
Sent: Friday, 4 January 2013, 20:03
Subject: Re: Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations

We keep making incredible progress thanks to the process: we validated on average 400 strings a 
day going from 49289 untranslated strings on Dec 16th to 42746 today.

I've updated the structure and the instructions on the Pad to be more detailed and more linear. 
I've added a link to Redmar's script, instructions on validating the files and mass-correcting 
translations errors before upload.
Feel free to ask if you're stuck at any point.

http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu

Pierre



On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Pierre Slamich <pierre.slamich@gmail.com> wrote:

Viva Low-Tech ;-)

When you come at the point of importing them back, let me know so that I can grant you upload 
rights to the mock project.


Sincerely,


Pierre
pierre.slamich@gmail.com




On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Hannie Dumoleyn <lafeber-dumoleyn2@zonnet.nl> wrote:

Hello Hendrik, Redmar, Pierre,

Redmar, thanks for writing the script.
The way I did the splitting so far is: open the sorted ddtp file

      in gedit, select lines 1 - 30.000 (which is about 940 Kb), copy
      these in a new document and save it. It only takes a few minutes.
      Then you can select the next 30.000 lines, and the next. Done!

Of course, using a script to split the whole file in one go is

      also very useful.

Hannie
Ubuntu Dutch Translators

Op 23-12-12 11:39, Hendrik Knackstedt schreef:

Am 23.12.2012 10:33, schrieb Redmar:


Hendrik Knackstedt schreef op do 20-12-2012 om 17:39 [+0100]:

Am 20.12.2012 13:43, schrieb Pierre Slamich:

I don't have a clean way to split them right now. I split them by

size to keep below 900ko (I took 800 for safety), but I then had to
adjust manually because the strings were split right in the middle.

Ok, I'll take a look at it and see if I can come up with something

useful.

I've been working with python-polib for a bit, so I think I'd be able to

create a script to split up a po file into multiple parts pretty
quickly. I haven't started yet, since I don't want to do duplicate work,
but please let me know if you want me to make a script or if you need
help with python-polib.

If you can do this, that's great. Thanks!

Hendrik

Regards, Redmar

--
Ubuntu Dutch Translators

If you don't mind, it would be great to take advantage of the German

process to automate the process as much as possible.
Would you be willing to expand the pad
(http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu) with us (yet another proof
of French-German partnership ;-P)?

Sure. What do you mean by "the German process"? I'm a bit short on

time right now but just let me know what has to be done and I'll try
to get it done asap. Regards,
Hendrik

Pierre On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Hendrik Knackstedt 
<hendrik.knackstedt@t-online.de> wrote: Hey Pierre! I'd like to test your approach for the 
German language also. How exactly did you split the files? Did you use an existing 
program/script or can you provide a script for doing this? Thanks! Hendrik Am 19.12.2012 
15:58, schrieb Pierre Slamich: > Yes, although we might be finished by then ;-)  > Thanks 
to the method we're reviewing and correcting around > 1000 strings per day at the moment.

 >  > sincerely, > Pierre >  >  > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Hannie Dumoleyn >

<lafeber-dumoleyn2@zonnet.nl> wrote: >         Hi Pierre, Redmar, and all who are 
interested, >         Would it be an idea to brainstorm on this in >         
#ubuntu-translators? Perhaps in January 2013? >         I agree with Redmar that the 
msgmerge is a good >         method, especially for huge documents. The only >         
snag is that you still have to approve

 the fuzzies >         offline before uploading the file back to >         Launchpad. We use this 
method for the Ubuntu >         Manual "Getting started with Ubuntu" (Lucid > >         Maverick > 
....> Raring) and with success. >         Redmar, sorry for not yet having tested your >         
popsort :(  >         Regards, >         Hannie >          >         Op 18-12-12 00:51, Pierre 
Slamich schreef: >          >         > Hi Hannie, Hi Redmar,  >         > Thanks a lot for the 
tips: we're interested in >         > using your approach, and more generally it might >         > 
be interesting expending the msmerge approach to >         > all teams that are already underway 
for the >         > DDTP, and the Google one to the teams that need >         > to get started. >   
      >  >         >  >         > - For the Google Translator Kit approach, I >         > guess we 
could extend the mock project we did >         > for fr_FR to other languages (and
 streamlining >         > our process by using Bazaar) by creating a >         > global team 
responsible for the DDTP Mock >         > project and including in this team one member >         > 
from each language team responsible for >         > uploading the machine translated po for his or

        > her language. >         >  >         >  >         > - For the msmerge approach, do you

already have >         > a project to handle this ? Is there any >         > advantage in msmerging 
raring against releases >         > older than quantal to get more modified >         > strings ? 
How many strings have you been able to >         > recover using that approach ?  It might be neat

        > to generate the msmerged po for all languages ? >         > Importing them as actual

translations (not >         > fuzzy) into a mock project like the Google >         > Translate one 
would show them as suggestions for >         > the actual DDTP as well. >         >
 The translator would thus be able to pick the >         > human translated one when available or 
to build >         > on the machine translated one otherwise. >         >  >         >  >         > 
Can we try to schedule some time to coordinate >         > on this so that we can use both 
approaches and >         > try to onboard all the other languages teams >         > once we have a 
rock-solid process ? >         >  >         >  >         > Pierre >         >  >         > Pierre 
Slamich >         > pierre.slamich@gmail.com >         >  >         >  >         >  >         > On 
Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Redmar >         > <redmar@ubuntu-nl.org> wrote: >         >         
Hi Pierre, >         >          >         >         I've actually tried a similar approach >

        for Dutch using msgmerge, which >         >         might also be worth checking out.

When >         >         you merge the translations of an >         >         older
 version of ubuntu into the current >         >         version (msgmerge >         >         
quantal_ddtp.po raring_ddtp.po -o >         >         merged_ddtp.po, for example), there >

        will be a lot of 'fuzzy' translations >         >         for strings that are similar

(for >         >         example, meta packages for different >         >         programs, 
debugging symbols etc). >         >         These fuzzy often only need a few small >         >     
    changes (eg program name) to be >         >         accepted, which can really speed up >       
  >         translations. And you don't have to >         >         worry about google putting in a 
weird >         >         translation, since it is all based >         >         on earlier 
translations done by a human. >         >          >         >         On a related note, if any of 
you work on >         >         ddtp-translations offline, I >         >         have written
 a python program that can >         >         sort entries in ddtp po-files >         >         
based on the popularity of the package. >         >         This way, the most popular >         >  
       packages will be at the top of the po >         >         file, and you are always sure you

        >         are working on the most important >         >         packages first. >         
         >         >         You can get the code here: >         >         bzr branch

lp:~redmar/+junk/ddtp_popsort >         >          >         >         It has a small readme file, 
please let >         >         me know if something is unclear >         >         or not working 
for you. >         >          >         >         Regards, >         >         Redmar >         >   
      -- >         >         Ubuntu Dutch Translators >         >          >         >          >   
      >         Hannie Dumoleyn schreef op ma 17-12-2012 >         >         om 17:58
 [+0100]: >         >         > Hello Pierre, >         >         > This is a very good idea! I 
have just >         >         uploaded the first part of the >         >         > incomplete Dutch 
translation (900kb) >         >         to GTT. >         >         > Thanks, >         >         > 
Hannie >         >         > >         >         > Op 17-12-12 12:55, Pierre Slamich >         >    
     schreef: >         >         > >         >         > > The DDTP represent around 50 000 >      
   >         strings to translate * 140 >         >         > > languages. On very good weeks, a >  
       >         typical translation team translates >         >         > > 500 strings (see UWN 
for examples >         >         weekly figures). >         >         > > >         >         > > > 
        >         > > Would take a lot of weeks (years?) >         >         with highly motivated 
volunteers >         >         > > of a large translation team, working >  
       >         non-stop, at their best to get >         >         > > done with it. >         >   
      > > Thus we had the idea to delegate >         >         initial translation suggestions to > 
        >         > > Google Translator Kit and review >         >         translations with humans 
to speed >         >         > > the process. >         >         > > >         >         > > We 
successfully did an import for >         >         circa 40 000 French strings  (yup >         >    
     > > you read that right) this week-end >         >         in a mock project called DDTP >     
    >         > > Automation >         >         
(https://translations.launchpad.net/ddtpautomation). >         >         > > To keep it short, the 
translations >         >         from this project appear as >         >         > > suggestions in 
the French DDTP, and >         >         can be reviewed by actual >         >         > > 
translators. >         >

We've started using them, and it >         >         turns out that a lot of them are >        
 >         > > actually useful and are speeding up >         >         the translation process 
a lot. >         >         > > >         >         > > We detailed the (somewhat) tedious >    
     >         process in English at >         >         > > >         > 
http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu >         >         > > Questions and inquiries welcome.

        >         > > >         >         > > Pierre >         >         > > >         >

    > > >         >         > > --- >         >         > > pierre.slamich@gmail.com >

        > > >         >         > > >         >         > >         >          >         >

       >         >          >         >         -- >         >         ubuntu-translators 
mailing list >         > ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com >         > 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators >

         >          >         >  >         >  >          >          >  >  >  >  -- 
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators


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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations · Tom Davies

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