Styles in Guides

Hi team

While reviewing I noticed some inconsistency in the styles.
For example, in one document a menu path like “Tools > Options > LibreOffice” is styled in MenuPath and in other documents in StrongEmphasis. Also for Buttons and icons.
What are the agreements about the styles?

Kind regards,
Kees

Hi Kees,

The style agreements are set out in the LibreOffice_6.x_Template.ott
available from the Nextcloud folder
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/91881

Even though there are mostly Yes's in the Calc Status spreadsheet "/Has
style been updated?/" column, my cursory check indicates this is
sometimes a little short of the truth.

For example, at random, I picked
CG6207-FormulasAndFunctions-OH-KK-20190515.odt and found that the
template had been applied, but no correction had been made to instances
of character style "Keystroke" and although the template replaces
character style "/LO Menu Path/" with "/Strong Emphasis/" the former
shows up in that document's "Applied Styles".

Also, was agreed at at the Docs Team meeting (Oct 31st 2018) that for
this Calc and subsequent Guides screen captures would be taken from
Windows 10, but in many cases the new 6.2 chapters have a mixture of
captures from different OS's. Unfortunately this agreement is not
recorded anywhere other than the minutes of that meeting, so I will make
this small additional note  to the existing template.

I am aware that some of our docs contributors work with OS's other than
Windows 10 and if required I can create screen capture files for any
chapter those contributors work on. Just let me know what is required.

Regards
Dave

Historically, Microsoft has claimed a copyright on the entire screen
capture that include any artefacts of Windows 10.
* Has Microsoft since renounced that position?
* If not, then how does one reconcile that position with the
requirements of the license(s) that work-product created by the
LibreOffice Documentation Project is distributed under?

I've forgotten which documentation projects specifically banned screen
shots from Microsoft products, because of that copyright issue.

jonathon

Hm!!! I wondered how long it would take you to pop out of the woodwork
with your legal declarations.

I really don't have time to waste on this nonsense, but...

Also, was agreed at at the Docs Team meeting (Oct 31st 2018) that for
this Calc and subsequent Guides screen captures would be taken from Windows 10,

Historically, Microsoft has claimed a copyright on the entire screen
capture that include any artefacts of Windows 10.

So they never made a similar claim for Widows from version 1 through to 8.1?

* Has Microsoft since renounced that position?

Any evidence they have taken that position on the millions of screen
captures scattered across the internet or in any published material?

* If not, then how does one reconcile that position with the
requirements of the license(s) that work-product created by the
LibreOffice Documentation Project is distributed under?

Proof that there is a "REAL" (rather than imagined) conflict?

I've forgotten which documentation projects specifically banned screen
shots from Microsoft products, because of that copyright issue.

One was this project, but it was not a ban just a knee-jerk reaction to
the same kind of scaremongering you are promoting here.

jonathon

If you think the documentation team are wrong in their decision, please
take it to the TDF legal advisors and we will listen to them.

Bye
Dave

Howdy,

> Also, was agreed at at the Docs Team meeting (Oct 31st 2018) that for
> this Calc and subsequent Guides screen captures would be taken from
Windows 10,

Historically, Microsoft has claimed a copyright on the entire screen
capture that include any artefacts of Windows 10.
* Has Microsoft since renounced that position?
* If not, then how does one reconcile that position with the
requirements of the license(s) that work-product created by the
LibreOffice Documentation Project is distributed under?\

There was nothing for MS to renounce. There was no claim made for screen
shots of non-Microsoft softwware running on Windows, that was just FUD.

There are, correctly, copyright claims for Microsoft products but even then
they (EUL) specifically grants usage rights for third parties as they do no
alter any such screen shots and there is a prohibition against release of
MS products not yet available for general pruchase - none of those
situations would come into play here.

Best wishes,

Drew

Dave Barton schreef op 16.05.2019 13:27:

Hi team

While reviewing I noticed some inconsistency in the styles.
For example, in one document a menu path like “Tools > Options >
LibreOffice” is styled in MenuPath and in other documents in
StrongEmphasis. Also for Buttons and icons.
What are the agreements about the styles?

Kind regards,
Kees

Hi Kees,

Hi Dave

The style agreements are set out in the LibreOffice_6.x_Template.ott
available from the Nextcloud folder
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/91881

Thank you. This makes it clear for me.

Even though there are mostly Yes's in the Calc Status spreadsheet "/Has
style been updated?/" column, my cursory check indicates this is
sometimes a little short of the truth.

For example, at random, I picked
CG6207-FormulasAndFunctions-OH-KK-20190515.odt and found that the
template had been applied, but no correction had been made to instances
of character style "Keystroke" and although the template replaces
character style "/LO Menu Path/" with "/Strong Emphasis/" the former
shows up in that document's "Applied Styles".

I can see now that al of menu paths, icons and buttons are in StrongEmphasis.
I have one question though. In the sentence

  "Table Heading
This paragraph style is used in the header row of a table and is the same font size as Table Contents, but uses Bold Italic for emphasis."

"Bold Italic" is in Direct Formatting. Shouldn't this be StrongEmphasie too?

Also, was agreed at at the Docs Team meeting (Oct 31st 2018) that for
this Calc and subsequent Guides screen captures would be taken from
Windows 10, but in many cases the new 6.2 chapters have a mixture of
captures from different OS's. Unfortunately this agreement is not
recorded anywhere other than the minutes of that meeting, so I will make
this small additional note to the existing template.

Good idea. This makes the Guides more consitent.

I am aware that some of our docs contributors work with OS's other than
Windows 10 and if required I can create screen capture files for any
chapter those contributors work on. Just let me know what is required.

I work with Windows 10 so no problem here.

Kind regards,
Kees

Hi Kees,

Yes, good catch.

I will upload the corrected template in a little while.

Thanks
Dave

If you think the documentation team are wrong in their decision, please
take it to the TDF legal advisors and we will listen to them.

Out of interest, who are those legal advisors ?

Alex

To be perfectly honest Alex, when it come to anything to do with TDF I
don't have the vaguest idea.
Since "official" notices from the board often refer to "Satzung der
Stiftung" and the importance of compliance with German law, my guess
would be that one or more TDF board members would know "who those legal
advisors are".

Dave

Out of interest, who are those legal advisors ?

Alex

Hi All

Subject: Re: Styles in Guides
From: Alexander Thurgood <alex.thurgood@gmail.com>
To: Dave Barton <daveb@libreoffice.org>,
documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 11:38:42 +0200

If you think the documentation team are wrong in their decision, please
take it to the TDF legal advisors and we will listen to them.

Out of interest, who are those legal advisors ?

Alex

To be perfectly honest Alex, when it come to anything to do with TDF I
don't have the vaguest idea.
Since "official" notices from the board often refer to "Satzung der
Stiftung" and the importance of compliance with German law, my guess
would be that one or more TDF board members would know "who those legal
advisors are".

Dave

The foundation has support of legal councelor Mike Schinagl and the
Board of Directors is the right channel to start addressing legal issues
at info@documentfoundation.org

All the best

I disagree about Bold Italic being direct formatting. Under the Font tab, Bold Italic is one choice for the font style Liberation Sans. To me, the question is whether to use the Bold or Bold Italic style rather than is this formatting using styles of direct formatting. If the choice is Bold, then Strong Emphasis would be the proper choice to replace Table Heading. Otherwise, Table Heading should be retained with the font style Bold Italic.

Dan

Hi Dan,

What Kees was referring to was a mistake that had somehow crept into my
update of the template. The two words "Bold Italic" in the "Table
Heading" text description of the template had been directly formatted
instead of the correct style being applied. This was not a discussions
about how or where specific styles should be applied. I can see how this
short email exchange could easily be misinterpreted, so I will try to
write more detailed replies in future.

Best Regards
Dave

Hi Olivier,

The foundation has support of legal councelor Mike Schinagl and the
Board of Directors is the right channel to start addressing legal issues
at info@documentfoundation.org

Thanks ! Good to know.

Alex