Runtime functions

[tagezi]

Hi all,

I would like to raise the issue of using a word "Runtime" with a name of
functions in LibreOffice help.
There are several meanings of this word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_library
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_time_(program_lifecycle_phase)
Are there functions in Basic to other time of the lifecycle?
I do not quite understand the reason for using this term in the help. I
assume that the authors of the old help wanted to emphasize that those are
built-in functions which translated into bytecode. Or in other words it is
a function of execution environment.

But does it make sense to use this term beside to each function?
In my opinion, [Runtime] obstructs reading the help.

Is there a reason to save this word in the help beside each function?
If there is no reason to save it, I will prepare a patch to remove it from
the help.

Best regards,
Lera

[ohallot]

Hi Lera

Hi all,

I would like to raise the issue of using a word "Runtime" with a name of
functions in LibreOffice help.
There are several meanings of this word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_library
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_time_(program_lifecycle_phase)
Are there functions in Basic to other time of the lifecycle?
I do not quite understand the reason for using this term in the help. I
assume that the authors of the old help wanted to emphasize that those are
built-in functions which translated into bytecode. Or in other words it is
a function of execution environment.

But does it make sense to use this term beside to each function?
In my opinion, [Runtime] obstructs reading the help.

Is there a reason to save this word in the help beside each function?
If there is no reason to save it, I will prepare a patch to remove it from
the help.

Best regards,
Lera

I only have a guess: make a difference with Calc functions. In some
cases like Cos, Sin, and some VBA financial functions, the function name
and results returned are the same.

So I humbly beg to differ on the obstruction the reading of the Help. It
does not affect my reading.

And please note that a change like this will trigger a set of
translation rework.

Regards

[filmsi]

Hi,

I for once think this should be done. The substring " [Runtime]" and all
its translations are a strange thing. We don't even know or agree, why it
is there ...

It could be either deleted or replaced (by " [Basic]" or something like
that). It could be done automatically with a script (because this is a
straight forward find for any search and replace function) - only all
needed translations should be gathered from all l10n teams.

My only suggestion is this should be done in the first three months of the
development cycle (for 6.1 it should be done by the end of April, not in
the last weeks before the translation deadline, if anything goes wrong with
the script.

Lp, m.

[ohallot]

Hi Martin

Hi,

I for once think this should be done. The substring " [Runtime]"  and
all its translations are a strange thing. We don't even know or agree,
why it is there ...

It could be either deleted or replaced (by " [Basic]" or something like
that). It could be done automatically  with a script (because this is a
straight forward find for any search and replace function) - only all
needed translations should be gathered from all l10n teams.

Well, BASIC is one of the languages where you can use these functions.
Python, Java and Javascript are other to my knowledge. That may also
explain the generic term 'Runtime'.

My only suggestion is this should be done in the first three months of
the development cycle (for 6.1 it should be done by the end of April,
not in the last weeks before the translation deadline, if anything goes
wrong with the script.

+1

Kind regards
Olivier

[tagezi]

hi,

I only have a guess: make a difference with Calc functions. In some
cases like Cos, Sin, and some VBA financial functions, the function name
and results returned are the same.

Do I understand correctly that it is for this reason the functions in
Writer tables are called formulas?
https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/swriter/main0214.html
Although in the other place they are called all the same functions.
https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/swriter/02/14020000.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=WIN
Note: it is without some [NoRuntime], or [NoCalc]. or even [Writer].

So I humbly beg to differ on the obstruction the reading of the Help. It
does not affect my reading.

In the letter Jean-Francois Nifenecker talks about his book and lists the
names of the chapters. One of the chapters has the title "5 - Runtime
Library".
https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/msg11968.html
I have not read his book, but I guess he does not write about a Runtime
Library. Most likely he chose this name only because after each function in
the help we use the term Runtime.

In addition, I really do not understand why the user should confuse
functions from different modules.
For example:
https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/sbasic/shared/03080102.html?DbPAR=BASIC#bm_id3154923
Nowhere is it said that this is a function of Basic, and a beginner may not
even know that we note the functions of this module by the strange
expression [Runtime].
But the user still understands what he reads about the Basic function.
And I think that it would be more useful to specify explicitly: "A function
Basic that calculates the cosine of an angle." Instead of no one
understandable [Runtime].

And please note that a change like this will trigger a set of
translation rework.

Yes, we need to think about translation, and in this case it's 700+ lines.
But we also need to think about how to take out a garbage in time.
Otherwise, we will have only the garbage.

PS: I added Jean-Francois Nifenecker to CC. May be he knows what means
[Runtime].
Because for me it still looks like "Cos Function []"

Best regards,
Lera