Vote: Elect Jean Weber as Documentation team lead

+1

+1

We are doing this while she is asleep aren't we?

Dan

+1 :slight_smile:

+1

Hi David,

+1 to your proposal,

but did you ask Jean if she's willing to take on this role?

+1

Vote her in while she is not looking :slight_smile:

+1 for her (of course if she wants to :slight_smile: )

Julien Nabet

Regards,
Don

I've been reading this thread with mixed feelings. I am certainly very
happy that you all think highly of my contributions, but I'm not sure
that I'm ready to spend enough time doing what I think a team leader
should do. I guess it would help if I listed what I think those things
are, and what I'm likely to do or not do, so we're all talking about
the same thing.

Just one comment now:
David Nelson said, "If you feel that the team should continue to
operate without any one single leader, with things being taken care of
by the person most diligent at that moment..."

My feeling is that things will have to continue to be "taken care of
by the person most diligent at that moment" because no one person can
(or, IMO, should) be directing all the traffic, and I'm certainly not
going to hand out assignments or track everything that's going on.
That's too much like a job, and I don't have time anyway.

Even with a "team leader" we need several people taking responsibility
for specific topic areas, a luxury we've never had (and only had
briefly, years ago, at OOo). We have a few, but not anywhere near
enough.

I'll write more later.

--Jean

It is nice to have someone directing all of the traffic, but I agree
that is too much to ask from one person. The team leader needs to have
some helpers to whom some of responsibilities should be delegated. The
helpers could do the work for each of their assigned areas and report to
the team leader the results. Suggestions of what might work better could
then be given by the team leader to the individual helpers.

Observation: It is very easy to reply "+1" to making a person the team
leader to keep track of everything and everyone's progress. (Let someone
else do it.) It is much harder to take on the responsibility of leading
a specific topic area with persistence and diligence while only getting
guidance from the team leader.

My experience with Jean's work goes back to OOo 1.1.x days. She does a
wonderful job of guiding others. But she has had to do too many things
for others that they were not willing to do for themselves. (She was the
one to do the most important review of Getting Started with Base that
someone else should have done.)

Maybe we need a need thread in which people volunteer to head the
specific areas of LibreOffice. Perhaps this should be done first. Once
we have leaders there, then might be a better time to have a team
leader. After all, if we are truly a team, we ought to be doing our
part.

These are my thoughts.

--Dan

Actually, after so many years doing much of the heavy lifting, I now
prefer the outward-reaching "ambassador" and inward "advisory" roles.
But at the same time, I can't resist getting involved with the
hands-on dirty work. :wink:

(And a title of some sort can be very handy when talking with
outsiders. I'm still working on a more detailed note on the matter of
team leadership.)

--Jean

Dan, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

One of the items I want to write up is what areas need people to take
responsibility for, and what those people should do. Of course,
someone else could start the list. Let's do it on the wiki.

--Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
Would this page be useful?
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Team/JobDescriptions

If so then it might be great if people could write in a few ideas and then i might be able to tidy some formatting ready for Jean

If the page name is a bit rubbish then we could always create a different one and copy&paste stuff to the new one.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:
Would this page be useful?
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Team/JobDescriptions

If so then it might be great if people could write in a few ideas and then i might be able to tidy some formatting ready for Jean

If the page name is a bit rubbish then we could always create a different one and copy&paste stuff to the new one.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

> From: Jean Weber <jeanweber@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Vote: Elect Jean Weber as Documentation team lead
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Friday, 4 November, 2011, 21:44
> >
> > It is nice to have someone directing all of the
> traffic, but I agree
> > that is too much to ask from one person. The team
> leader needs to have
> > some helpers to whom some of responsibilities should
> be delegated. The
> > helpers could do the work for each of their assigned
> areas and report to
> > the team leader the results. Suggestions of what might
> work better could
> > then be given by the team leader to the individual
> helpers.
> >
> > Observation: It is very easy to reply "+1" to making a
> person the team
> > leader to keep track of everything and everyone's
> progress. (Let someone
> > else do it.) It is much harder to take on the
> responsibility of leading
> > a specific topic area with persistence and diligence
> while only getting
> > guidance from the team leader.
> >
> > My experience with Jean's work goes back to OOo 1.1.x
> days. She does a
> > wonderful job of guiding others. But she has had to do
> too many things
> > for others that they were not willing to do for
> themselves. (She was the
> > one to do the most important review of Getting Started
> with Base that
> > someone else should have done.)
> >
> > Maybe we need a need thread in which people volunteer
> to head the
> > specific areas of LibreOffice. Perhaps this should be
> done first. Once
> > we have leaders there, then might be a better time to
> have a team
> > leader. After all, if we are truly a team, we ought to
> be doing our
> > part.
> >
> > These are my thoughts.
> >
> > --Dan
>
> Dan, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.
>
> One of the items I want to write up is what areas need
> people to take
> responsibility for, and what those people should do. Of
> course,
> someone else could start the list. Let's do it on the
> wiki.
>
> --Jean

     I have uploaded my suggestions to the wiki page listed at the top
of this email. Feel free everyone to add your viewpoints.

--Dan

Hi :slight_smile:
Thanks Dan. It looks fine as it is imo. Nicely done :slight_smile:
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

+1

On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 11:44 +0200, David Nelson wrote:

Hi,

I'm calling out to all present and past active members of the
Documentation team to post a vote (+1 or -1).

All of us who know Jean Weber are aware of her years of dedication to
documentation for OpenOffice.org, for ODFAuthors and now for
LibreOffice. You will also be aware of her great expertise in the
publishing profession, and her knowledge and experience of
OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice. We also know what a great organizer
she is. And we also are aware of the vast amount of work she does on
documentation development for the team.

I'm pretty certain that no-one will disagree with me when I say that
she has everyone's respect for her contributions.

I would like to see her empowered as an ambassador for the LibreOffice
project by having official recognition as the Documentation team lead.

--
David Nelson

--
Dan

Hi,

I've been watching the feedback, including Jean's of course. Although
some months ago my own feelings were that the LibO English docs team
didn't really need a specific team leader, my opinion has somewhat
evolved since then.

This is partly because of the small number (or even practical
non-existence) of regularly active team members. New people have
turned up, done some work and then become inactive again. People
previously involved in OOo and ODFAuthors have sometime put in some
work and then gone silent again - sometimes leaving their work in a
half-finished state.

There are only a couple or so people with any accurate idea of the
state of play of docs work and who's doing what, and Jean is one of
them. Also, I have noticed how there is more general activity from
other people when Jean herself is in an active period, and how things
go largely dead when she's busy with other stuff in life.

So I do think it would be worth properly naming her team lead, because
she does seem to carry a lot of weight with people and since it could
give her a better position to be an ambassador for LibO documentation
(for recruiting new members, for possibly finding alternative ways of
getting documentation written for the project, etc.).

I'd see her as having more of an organizational/coordinating/project
management role, and as being more of a "librarian" than anything
else.

"Possibly finding alternative ways of getting documentation written
for the project"?

Well, how about the possibility of getting commercial technical
documentation and translation agencies involved in
sponsoring/undertaking projects, in exchange for some form of
publicity/creditation for their contribs? That would, of course,
require some serious liaison and organization, and Jean would be a
well-qualified candidate for the job (if she felt able to take on the
role).

This is just one idea that comes to mind, but I'm starting to think
that it's time to do some lateral thinking. The LibreOffice
documentation effort has currently ground almost to a halt in terms of
real productive work.

Thank you to everyone for your support of David's proposal for me to
be team leader. I am honoured.

However, after much thought, I am declining the invitation. I will
continue to do some things, but only intermittently, and I do not want
to accept responsibility for the things I think need to be done. What
I want to do requires enough others contributing reliably and
productively to get at least some jobs done. And we don't have enough
productive people. I've been recruiting for and promoting OOo/LO docs
for many years, and the results have not been encouraging. I don't
know what the secret is for successful volunteer recruitment and
retention, but obviously I haven't stumbled on it. I'm tired of
trying.

Some time ago I did a fairly thorough "brain dump" into the chapters
of the Contributors Guide. Even though they need updating and (in some
cases) expansion, they should be a good starting place for the group's
members, both new and veteran. I sincerely hope some people will
emerge to take over doing the necessary work, and doing it well.

--Jean

Also, after all these years I'm bored with the whole thing. --Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
Ouch.  It is fair enough.  I think one problem was Sun's mastery but it's good to hear that the problems we are having are not new.  In England it is a particularly difficult time to recruit volunteers as a lot of charities are having their funding pulled away so they are all clamouring for volunteers too.  Of course the top-down structure doesn't bode well for them either so like Sun they might have troubles too.  None of which really helps
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

The explanation is in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3-9).
Pardon me for being religious, but this parable does point out human
frailties. It divides people into four groups: those who don't
understand a situation at all; those who like the idea until something
happens that they don't like; those who begin work on something but let
other things get in their way to prevent completion; and those who
actually accomplish something some more than others and some less. Such
is the case with volunteers.
    People want someone to lead (read that do things for them) but
seldom step up to doing things themselves as much as they should. Here
is another religious reference. When Israel first neared their
destination, they refused to go any further because of what 10 men had
said. Talking about not following someone, the entire army (603550 men)
with the exception of 2 men prepared to return to Egypt.
    I'm still amazed that a wiki page has been created in which we were
suppose to discuss job descriptions for the team and only two have
entered anything there. I posted my thoughts, and another person added
my name at the beginning of my post. That has been it. Again, I have
seen several +1 with no -1 in posts. But where are their thoughts on
this wiki page? Who has said that they will take responsibility for a
specific area of documentation?
     We are a group of individuals with talents. What is it that each
one can do well? What are our areas of expertise? Who can we rely upon
for help when we need it? One wiki page has a list of names, but nothing
about these people as far what they can provide the the team. What is
our commitment to the team?
     The main goal for what the team should be accomplishing has already
been stated. But how well has the main goal been broken down into
smaller goals that apply to the documents for each of the components of
LO?
     Another wiki page diagrams the path a new document should take
before it is published. So, who is going to take on the responsibility
of revise a chapter or creating a new one? Who is going to review the
chapters for clarity or correctness? Who is going to proofread them for
grammar etc.? Who will make the final decision as to whether it should
be published or not?
     I have a few more thoughts as well that I will post at a later time
concerning what we should tell someone who wants do some technical
writing. So of it are some things that I think I remember Jean writing a
few years ago (around the time of or perhaps before the appearance of
OOo 2.0).