About fdo#40162 - Missing section in README_en-US installation instructions

Hello,

By trying to reproduce the bug 39391, I followed the READMEs and found that
there wasn't deinstall section whereas the READMEs mention it. After some
research, I found too it was the bug 40162.
After having discussed about this on IRC dev, some (I won't give names :slight_smile:
but I was quite convinced too) thought about removing READMEs .

More seriously, is it useful to explain the dpkg/rpm commands to someone who
download the rpm/deb package ?
The one who knows how to install or deinstall .deb surely does know
dpkg/rpm.
So I propose to simplify these sections and as soon as I'll know where
is/are the readme(s) I'd like to propose a new version.

Any idea about this ?

Julien.
PS : I installed the deb packages and everything was ok (media not found but
no pb with them), so I don't understand 39391 (moreover it has been marked
as a blocker) except if I'm the only one "WORKSFORME"
PS2 : I know I crosspost with dev mailing list but it could be interesting
for more than 1 mailing list

Hello,

Hello,

By trying to reproduce the bug 39391, I followed the READMEs and found that
there wasn't deinstall section whereas the READMEs mention it. After some
research, I found too it was the bug 40162.
After having discussed about this on IRC dev, some (I won't give names :slight_smile:
but I was quite convinced too) thought about removing READMEs .

More seriously, is it useful to explain the dpkg/rpm commands to someone who
download the rpm/deb package ?
The one who knows how to install or deinstall .deb surely does know
dpkg/rpm.
So I propose to simplify these sections and as soon as I'll know where
is/are the readme(s) I'd like to propose a new version.

Any idea about this ?

Readme is here: readlicense_oo/docs/readme/readme.xrm
When you edit it, please take care that paragraph ids must be unique.

Best regards,
Andras

Hi :slight_smile:
Just my opinion, not a rule or anything  - and i'm not at all certain this is the best route but would it be best practice to just give links to "official" documentation provided by whoever maintains those projects or/and give advice on how to get help directly from the command-line, eg

dpkg --help

or

dpkg -h

and how to access the "man"(ual).  That might help us avoid falling behind if there are substantial changes.  It would help if whatever documentation we link to is editable (like our wiki-pages rather than a blog) so that we could help there update there documentation a bit if something extreme happened.  Perhaps give links to the "community documentation" provided by a couple of the major distros?

I think it does make sense to cover the basics and perhaps any likely problems that might typically happen with LO (if there are any) but avoid getting too deeply into documenting it?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom, guys,

Yes, it is probably a very good solution to provide links to other
external documentation.

When I originally re-worked the Linux readme and the Linux
installation instructions, I especially had in mind the idea of
providing comprehensive instructions for inexpert users.

But covering Linux in such instructions is more complicated than other
operating systems, because of the multiple distributions that need to
be covered.

However, I have to admit that the resulting installation guides and
the readme probably constitute as much of a barrier to easy
installation for a newbie as the complexity (for a newbie) of a
command-line installation process.

So a re-working is definitely necessary. What we currently have is
rather "spaghetti code-like", especially after all the comments at the
time were worked into the drafts.

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahh, That page :wink: lol

I thought it was good and had been editied recently.  I think that one might be best split into a few short sub-pages such as
Debian
Ubuntu & other Debian family distros
Mageia / Mandriva and family
Redhat family distros
openSUSE distros
Slackware
Arch
Many of those are probably about the same anyway.

On the main page something generic such as "As Root User do ... " and then later a "Now as normal user ... ".  I think the only differences between the distros is the file ending (either rpm or deb ie requires yum or dpkg or apt-get) and whether the distro has the "sudo" command by default to avoid needing to use "su" or logging in as Root.  Hmm, that does suddenly look complicated but it's really not as bad as i made it sound i'm sure!

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello Andras,

First, thank your for the tip.
Do you know where's the best location to propose a patch ? (dev, Doc mailing
list, both ?)

Julien.

Slackware actually repackages the RPMs with a script from
Slackbuilds.org.

Tom,

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahh, That page :wink: lol

I thought it was good and had been editied recently. I think that one might be best split into a few short sub-pages such as
Debian
Ubuntu & other Debian family distros
Mageia / Mandriva and family
Redhat family distros
openSUSE distros
Slackware
Arch
Many of those are probably about the same anyway.

On the main page something generic such as "As Root User do ... " and then later a "Now as normal user ... ". I think the only differences between the distros is the file ending (either rpm or deb ie requires yum or dpkg or apt-get) and whether the distro has the "sudo" command by default to avoid needing to use "su" or logging in as Root. Hmm, that does suddenly look complicated but it's really not as bad as i made it sound i'm sure!

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Actually the install procedure for Linux is very similar for each
distribution, it is the details that make it sound difficult: sudo vs
su, etc.
Another option is to right click and use "Open With" and select the
Software Installer/Package Manager. This probably better for newbies.

Hi :slight_smile:
Has this issue been dealt with?  Sorry i got a bit lost last week
Regards from
TOm :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:
Found it. There was a huge discussion and i do remember it now. Sorry for
the extra noise of these 2 posts.
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi,

No pb :slight_smile:
You can follow this thread with Nabble links too.
in Documentation part :
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/About-fdo-40162-Missing-section-in-README-en-US-installation-instructions-td3383963.html

in Dev part :
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/About-40162-Missing-section-in-README-en-US-installation-instructions-td3383959.html

Julien.

I had put a patch the 01/10.
Is this patch ok for you ?

Second point : do you know if there's a doc in progress about Base for
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/ ?

Julien

Hi :slight_smile:
Base is notoriously tough to write for. A few people have tried and vanished. I think there are some chapters and a few loose knit bits&bobs in Alfresco for it that might need pulling together. Hopefully the OOo guide might give people a good start?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Julien,

Second point : do you know if there's a doc in progress about Base for
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/ ?

There is/was a Getting Started with Base Guide in English that I started
translating into French. I am about halfway through that translation,
but stalled it when I encountered various problems with Base at the
time, i.e. before people like you, Lionel and Terry started working on
the Base bugs :wink:

I guess now would be a good time to take that up again, if I can
physically find the time to do so.

I know the German user mailing list is busy with preparing a German
translation of the English Base user guide, but they have had to
adapt/change quite a few bits because of the problems they encountered
when using Base and when following the initial English getting started
guide. I believe that Robert Grosskopf (regular Base user, bug reporter
- at least on the German mailing lists) is heading up that translation
effort, the aim, I think, is to post it to ODFAuthors once it is
finished. AFAIK, the database example that they will provide with their
Guide is completely different to the one proposed in the current English
guide.

Alex

There is a link to Getting Started with Base for LibreOffice on the
page you mentioned. It is based on the the Getting Started with Base
written for OOo written by yours truly with the help of a few others
that were greatly appreciated.
     I would like to see some people working on a Base Guide for
LibreOffice. I would even like to collaborate with anyone willing to do
this (if I'm allowed to do this since I am presently working on a Base
Guide for Apache Open Office). Base is not as hard to learn as most
people think. It does help to have a background in algebra for formulas
used in a query. What would be great for someone who knows something
about the algebra of sets. This only has to be something fairly
elementary (e.g.: intersections, unions, cross products).

Dan

Hi :slight_smile:

From the few chats i have had with exclusively Apache people i think they are quite happy for people to be in both communities. I think the licensing of your work is different but that's about it. Apparently Oracle got a bit stuffy about higher ranking people in 'their' community working here too but I think Apache are a lot more sensible. 'Our' licensing is CC by SA so that people can modify it and distribute it as widely as they like.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Dan,

     There is a link to Getting Started with Base for LibreOffice on the
page you mentioned. It is based on the the Getting Started with Base
written for OOo written by yours truly with the help of a few others
that were greatly appreciated.
     I would like to see some people working on a Base Guide for
LibreOffice. I would even like to collaborate with anyone willing to do
this (if I'm allowed to do this since I am presently working on a Base
Guide for Apache Open Office). Base is not as hard to learn as most
people think. It does help to have a background in algebra for formulas
used in a query. What would be great for someone who knows something
about the algebra of sets. This only has to be something fairly
elementary (e.g.: intersections, unions, cross products).

AFAIK, anyone is welcome here, much as they are on AOOo. It is just two
slightly different ways of working. Personally, I find it hard to give
enough time to one project, let alone two at the same time, so am
focussing on LibreOffice, but in the end, the products are still pretty
similar for the time being.

Alex