documentation at oooauthors

Hi Jean,

The files are very much NOT ready for translation. In fact, IMO they are
not ready to be put on the LibO site, where other people can find and
copy them.

I'm interested in the reason why you think they are not ready for
translation, other than the points you mention in your post - could you
enlighten me a little ?

Alex

Isn't that enough? But perhaps I don't know how clean you guys want your
files before starting translation; perhaps I mis-spoke.

The OOo versions are ready for translation as OOo docs. If translators
want to also do all the work of adapting the files to LibO (cutting out
bits that are not relevant to LibO; adding bits that are relevant but
not in the OOo version; changing the links from OOo links to LibO links;
etc...) then I guess they are ready.

--Jean

Hi Leo,

Hi,

Sigrid,

Link works for me.

Thanks Andy.

What I find very strange is, that I have manager rights on oooauthors,
I see the review list, but I can't see this folder.

I checked the rights that I had, changed them, logged off and on again
- and still nothing changed. I can't see any content in this folder.

Btw, I also don't see an "English" folder in the left bar when I go to
oooauthors, I only see it, when I add /english to the url manually.

That's so strange.

Sigrid

I have similar rights as Sigrid and facing similar problems. How can I solve
these?

sorry, I don't have an idea. I've tried with deleting everything in my
browser cache and also tried different browsers (besides Chromium,
original Chrome, Firefox and Opera) and with no browser can I access
the English folder with the LibO-Documents. The only way I can see the
contents is to use a different computer.

But I agree, that this is not a satisfactory solution.

Sigrid

Isn't that enough? But perhaps I don't know how clean you guys want your
files before starting translation; perhaps I mis-spoke.

No, I just got the impression that there was something more to do than
what you'd mentioned.

The OOo versions are ready for translation as OOo docs. If translators
want to also do all the work of adapting the files to LibO (cutting out
bits that are not relevant to LibO; adding bits that are relevant but
not in the OOo version; changing the links from OOo links to LibO links;
etc...) then I guess they are ready.

Well, I think that's good news :slight_smile: As for the differences, I am going to
be focussing on Base to start with, and there are not, AFAICT any major
differences between OOo and LibO as yet.

Alex

Hi Alex,

Isn't that enough? But perhaps I don't know how clean you guys want your
files before starting translation; perhaps I mis-spoke.

No, I just got the impression that there was something more to do than
what you'd mentioned.

The OOo versions are ready for translation as OOo docs. If translators
want to also do all the work of adapting the files to LibO (cutting out
bits that are not relevant to LibO; adding bits that are relevant but
not in the OOo version; changing the links from OOo links to LibO links;
etc...) then I guess they are ready.

Well, I think that's good news :slight_smile: As for the differences, I am going to
be focussing on Base to start with, and there are not, AFAICT any major
differences between OOo and LibO as yet.

What language are you going to translate to? If you need help or a first reader in case of French, just ping me :slight_smile:

Kind regards
Sophie

I concur. I've downloaded the first file: 0101GS3-IntroducingLibO.odt and have found many instances of OpenOffice.org, as well as OpenOffice.org specific instructions (how to operate from the command line, for example). Moreover, the links throughout the document are all to a site with which we are not affiliated. I'll upload what I've been able to change on my own when through, later today, however even then it will need to be gone over by the drupal team, at least.

Hi Leo, Sigrid, *,

because I has not enough time to read all the emails on the list, I has not
enregistered this thread.

Hi Leo,

> Hi,
>
>>> Sigrid,
>>>
>>> Link works for me.
>>
>> Thanks Andy.
>>
>> What I find very strange is, that I have manager rights on oooauthors,
>> I see the review list, but I can't see this folder.
>>
>> I checked the rights that I had, changed them, logged off and on again
>> - and still nothing changed. I can't see any content in this folder.
>>
>> Btw, I also don't see an "English" folder in the left bar when I go to
>> oooauthors, I only see it, when I add /english to the url manually.
>>
>> That's so strange.
>>
>> Sigrid
>
> I have similar rights as Sigrid and facing similar problems. How can I
> solve these?

sorry, I don't have an idea. I've tried with deleting everything in my
browser cache and also tried different browsers (besides Chromium,
original Chrome, Firefox and Opera) and with no browser can I access
the English folder with the LibO-Documents. The only way I can see the
contents is to use a different computer.

But I agree, that this is not a satisfactory solution.

The issue is here a misconfiguration of the language setting for the whole folder.
The default language inside the Plone CMS of OOoAuthors.org is language neutral. This
is the only setting, which guarantees, that all members can see the directory and
it's content. You can translate the folder with LinguaPlone to another language. This
means that every user with the language setting according to the translation will see
the translated version in that language. The other members (with no available
translation) will see the default folder (with language neutral setting).
You can realise the misconfiguration, if you change your language setting by clicking
on the English flag.

Regards,
Andreas

Hi Jeremy, :slight_smile:

I'll upload what I've been able to change on my own when through, later
today, however even then it will need to be gone over by the drupal team, at
least.

I received your off-list mail with the attached file. Thank you very
much for that. I will take a look at it and post it on the wiki.

I just wanted to point one thing out to everyone as regards the
subject of Drupal. There have been many postings on many of the TDF
mailing lists about Drupal, but - in reality - there has been no
official decision to adopt a Drupal site at the moment, not for
documentation and not for anything else. No official decision could be
taken before The Document Foundation [TDF] has a board of directors,
at which time the board of directors will take any such decision.

As for the handling of documentation by a Drupal site, that would
first depend on a decision being taken to adopt Drupal as a tool for
the docs team. That, in itself, is far from being a foregone
conclusion. Other solutions exist (use the wiki, etc.). For the
moment, there has not been any proper technical evaluation of a Drupal
based workflow, so any discussion about Drupal is currently pure
conjecture.

David Nelson

I just wanted to point one thing out to everyone as regards the
subject of Drupal. There have been many postings on many of the TDF
mailing lists about Drupal, but - in reality - there has been no
official decision to adopt a Drupal site at the moment, not for
documentation and not for anything else. No official decision could be
taken before The Document Foundation [TDF] has a board of directors,
at which time the board of directors will take any such decision.

The steering committee has given the website team a mandate for the
rapid-up temporary site with a Drupal replacement being implemented
within 6 months. (Note that this will not replace the wiki)
It is now up to the website team to develop the tools in Drupal in
order to meet the needs of every part of the community. If this cannot
be done for a given team then we can consider using other tools.

As for the handling of documentation by a Drupal site, that would
first depend on a decision being taken to adopt Drupal as a tool for
the docs team.

I totally agree with allowing the individual teams drive the
development of the tools they want to use, and almost anything is
possible using the Drupal framework.
Can I encourage people to throw up ideas of the tools they want the
website team to build rather than perpetuating the myth that Drupal
document management is fixed. It is flexible and fluid, and as long as
the ideas are well formulated and logical, we can build them in
Drupal.

Michael Wheatland

Can Drupal do anything like O3Spaces (http://o3spaces.org/Home) can? I think
that would provide much better document management for developing ODT
documents.

Jeff

Can Drupal do anything like O3Spaces (http://o3spaces.org/Home) can? I
think that would provide much better document management for developing ODT
documents.

Jeff

I found this product--Alfresco (http://www.alfresco.com/). It's open source
and seems like it could provide for excellent document collaboration.

> Can Drupal do anything like O3Spaces (http://o3spaces.org/Home) can? I
> think that would provide much better document management for developing ODT
> documents.

I found this product--Alfresco (http://www.alfresco.com/). It's open source
and seems like it could provide for excellent document collaboration.

There are many such products. Each has some feature that catches our eye.

But such window-shopping won't be conclusive (especially when this is a group-decision).

It would be best to identify what the authors need, and then let Michael prove that it is already available in Drupal.

And that can be derived by looking at other products, such as O3spaces and Alfresco.

Jeff, can you state any specific feature/behavior in these products?

Then let Michael offer the same features (or equivalent) in Drupal.

Let Michael have the "first right to refuse", given that the Drupal site already has the Steering Committee's nod.

We should look for other solutions only if Drupal cannot meet the authors' critical needs.

(Drupal can still be used for everything except AUTHORING. For example, for HOSTING the final docs.)

Coming to the authors' wish-list, let me start off the "seed" list. Please add your own list here.

The tool(s) selected at the end should meet the following as bare minimum:

1. Allow easy collaboration (joint editing)

2. Allow online/offline modes of working

3. Provide synchronization/collation of work done by multiple authors.

4. Allow creation of pdf for offline reading (clicking on links takes you to target)

5. Allow creation of pdf for printing a book (target of links are made visible so reader can flip to that page)

6. Allow collaborative editing (show diff w.r.t any previous version, allow rollback, allow merging).

7. Allow conversion of odt files into existing content.

8. Allow conversion of WIP website content into odt, so that an author can do offline editing.

9. Allow authoring of context-sensitive help file (the file we see when we press F1)

Let Michael have a fair shot at it and then let us decide.

-Narayan

Thanks Andreas,

Hi Leo, Sigrid, *,

because I has not enough time to read all the emails on the list, I has not
enregistered this thread.

[...]

The issue is here a misconfiguration of the language setting for the whole folder.
The default language inside the Plone CMS of OOoAuthors.org is language neutral. This
is the only setting, which guarantees, that all members can see the directory and
it's content. You can translate the folder with LinguaPlone to another language. This
means that every user with the language setting according to the translation will see
the translated version in that language. The other members (with no available
translation) will see the default folder (with language neutral setting).
You can realise the misconfiguration, if you change your language setting by clicking
on the English flag.

I will test this later at home.

Sigrid

Hi Sophie,

What language are you going to translate to? If you need help or a first
reader in case of French, just ping me :slight_smile:

I'll be translating into French to start with, and possibly German later
depending on whether someone else has started it or not. Thanks for the
offer of help, will let you know if I get stuck :-))

Alex

There are many such products. Each has some feature that catches our eye.

But such window-shopping won't be conclusive (especially when this is a
group-decision).

...

Let Michael have a fair shot at it and then let us decide.

-Narayan

We used to use O3Spaces at my job before switching to SharePoint (mainly
b/c SharePoint was just a better product). We used O3Spaces to coordinate,
develop, publish, and maintain our master documents (policies, procedures,
manuals, etc.) since it provided basically one-click document
check-in/check-out, joint editing, revision control, wiki-publishing, etc.

From what I remember with OOoAuthors, once you downloaded a document, you

had to re-upload the same document. With O3Spaces, none of this was
necessary as the server handled all this for you in the background. It also
stored all the revision so reverting/merging revisions was a breeze and not
a manual process. I would think having a system that can do all of this
would be extremely beneficial to the production and maintenance of LibO
documents.

O3Spaces is commercial software so I know it's out of the question, but
Alfresco seemed to have a very similar feature set. I'm just curious if any
of these products were even considered instead of possibly reinventing the
wheel with Drupal.

Jeff

Hi, :slight_smile:

O3Spaces is commercial software so I know it's out of the question, but
Alfresco seemed to have a very similar feature set. I'm just curious if any
of these products were even considered instead of possibly reinventing the
wheel with Drupal.

IMHO, it's a valid point about not reinventing the wheel... there can
be advantages to adopting a "best of breed" approach to each need,
rather than being locked into a single CMS on which you have to do a
lot of development work so that it "does it all".

David Nelson

Jeff,
Just to let you know we are definitely not tied to one product, in fact one
of the reasons that the steering committee decided to go with Drupal was
it's ability to leverage these tools and integrate it with workflows and
publishing systems within the Drupal framework.

I know that a lot of effort has already gone into Alfresco to Drupal
integration. If there is a need to access, edit and republish documents
under development through a native file system network folder I would we
suggest we go towards leveraging these tools and move away from the work
that has been done already. On the other hand we could use a version control
system just like the development team does with GIT when working on and
submitting source code, and Drupal supports this without the need for
additional applications which would also support native file system support
you are describing.

On both counts however it requires an end user to learn another system,
unlike the point and click type of system that OOoAuthors has and I have
been working towards on Jean's advice.

There is nothing stopping us integrating something like this down the track
after an initial point and click system is in place.

Thoughts?
Michael Wheatland

There are many such products. Each has some feature that catches our eye.

But such window-shopping won't be conclusive (especially when this is a
group-decision).

...

Let Michael have a fair shot at it and then let us decide.

-Narayan

We used to use O3Spaces at my job before switching to SharePoint (mainly
b/c SharePoint was just a better product). We used O3Spaces to coordinate,
develop, publish, and maintain our master documents (policies, procedures,
manuals, etc.) since it provided basically one-click document
check-in/check-out, joint editing, revision control, wiki-publishing, etc.

From what I remember with OOoAuthors, once you downloaded a document, you

had to re-upload the same document. With O3Spaces, none of this was
necessary as the server handled all this for you in the background. It

also

stored all the revision so reverting/merging revisions was a breeze and

not

a manual process. I would think having a system that can do all of this
would be extremely beneficial to the production and maintenance of LibO
documents.

O3Spaces is commercial software so I know it's out of the question, but
Alfresco seemed to have a very similar feature set. I'm just curious if

any

Hi, :slight_smile:

Just to let you know we are definitely not tied to one product, in fact one
of the reasons that the steering committee decided to go with Drupal was
it's ability to leverage these tools and integrate it with workflows and
publishing systems within the Drupal framework.

Just for the sake of clarity and accuracy about this, there has been
no *official decision* as yet to definitely go with a Drupal site.
It's still under evaluation as such (this is what the steering
committee meeting minutes confirm) [1].

What has actually been said up to present is this:

"vote if to start with Silverstripe or Drupal
result: 6 for Silverstripe vs. 2 for Drupal -> 2/3rd majority for Silverstripe
reason to vote for Silverstripe was in most cases that a fast go-live
is expected and that there are people to do administration and take
care about content
reason to vote for Drupal was the higher flexibility (and therefore
better long-term solution) as well as having several people with good
knowledge about drupal
suggestion is that the website team should do some more planning, what
we need regarding website, additional services, and see how this can
be achieved with drupal. We see the need of a more sophisticated CMS
in the future."

The SC has not taken any other official decisions on the subject since
that time...

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2010-10-27

David Nelson

Hello Andreas,

Op 9/12/2010 21:22, Andreas Mantke schreef:

Hi Leo, Sigrid, *,

because I has not enough time to read all the emails on the list, I has not
enregistered this thread.

No problem

The issue is here a misconfiguration of the language setting for the whole folder.
The default language inside the Plone CMS of OOoAuthors.org is language neutral. This
is the only setting, which guarantees, that all members can see the directory and
it's content. You can translate the folder with LinguaPlone to another language. This
means that every user with the language setting according to the translation will see
the translated version in that language. The other members (with no available
translation) will see the default folder (with language neutral setting).
You can realise the misconfiguration, if you change your language setting by clicking
on the English flag.

Regards,
Andreas

Thanks a lot Andreas, problem solved.

Best regards

Hi Jean,

The latest version of the draft LibO Getting Started guide chapters are
here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation

Ron Failes took all the published chapters and applied the new LibO
template to them. However, as far as I can tell, no other changes have
yet been made, for example changing OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice
(except on the title pages), and the list of contributors to the OOo
chapters does not appear in the LibO files that I checked. Other changes
that were made to the draft chapters have not been made to the latest
ones, either, so whoever works on these will need to do all of that
again. Comparing them with the draft chapters would help with those
updates, but not if you cannot get to the drafts.

The files are very much NOT ready for translation. In fact, IMO they are
not ready to be put on the LibO site, where other people can find and
copy them.

That is what I realised as well, but I was eager to find out what you were all talking about and which progress was made and see if there is any way I could help.

But as you will have understood from Andreas, the problem is solved. :smiley:

--Jean

Thanks for trying to help.
Best regards