Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud

Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.

It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.

I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.

Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.

So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.

Best Regards
Dave

Hi Dave

Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.

It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.

Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO.

I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.

Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice
Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That
said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save
the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu
File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your
computer with the bonus of selecting the file format.

Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a
blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far
as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do
not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead.

Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.

So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.

I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to
NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live
example of the online features.

Kind regards

Hi Oliver,

Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is
not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation
are interested in.

In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which
is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory
structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about
something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review
what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation
files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the
past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own
convenience, to change that now just because we can.

If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find
some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download
copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page.
Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and
leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX
teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy.

Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as
being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that
you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about
how to serve those interests.

Best Regards
Dave

HI Dave

Hi Dave

Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.

It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.

Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO.

I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.

Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice
Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That
said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save
the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu
File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your
computer with the bonus of selecting the file format.

Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a
blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far
as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do
not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead.

Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.

So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.

I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to
NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live
example of the online features.

Kind regards

Hi Oliver,

Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is
not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation
are interested in.

In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which
is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory
structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about
something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review
what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation
files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the
past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own
convenience, to change that now just because we can.

If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find
some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download
copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page.
Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and
leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX
teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy.

Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as
being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that
you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about
how to serve those interests.

Best Regards
Dave

No PITA at all. Your voice is important.

I'm open to do whatever it is necessary to make people get the
documentation the easiest way. Actually we have several places to get
the guides:

A) The documentation website:
https://documentation.libreoffice.org

B) The wiki page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications

C) The extension site
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags[]=53

D) Nextcloud folders when shared read-only in public.

There are also 2 personas for using our documentation

1) End users (wants the book in PDF or printed, and then Bye!)

2) Contributors/professionals/translators that want the above + source
files.

I' prefer to move this much needed debate to the Doc Meeting this
Thursday (I hope all parties interested can attend), because each 1,2
will use a different A,B,C,D. Naturally each web service has advantages
and drawbacks in maintenance and user experience.

Kind regards

Hello Olivier,

I'm open to do whatever it is necessary to make people get the
documentation the easiest way. Actually we have several places to get
the guides:

A) The documentation website:
https://documentation.libreoffice.org

B) The wiki page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications

C) The extension site
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags[]=53

D) Nextcloud folders when shared read-only in public.

I'm sure that I wouldn't look for documentation in the extensions/templates pages.

Best regards,

Hi Olivier,

I am not aware if this link-back arrangement was discussed prior to
implementation, but I agree this is something we should discuss at the
next meeting.

My suggestion is going to be along the lines:

  * We satisfy persona 1 by placing PDF copies of the published guides
    in one location such as the wiki and link-back to them from the
    LO website and Extension site.

  * Persona 2 in most cases will already have a reasonable understanding
    of documentation development and if not they should be guided to
    NextCloud.

I have a question about the documentation being made available on the
Extensions site, but I will start another thread on that subject.

Best Regards
Dave