Creating a How To Migrate HSQL Base File wiki page for reference from LO 6.3 binary

Documentation General
#1

Howdy,

In the ESC meeting yesterday the question of including the Migration
Assistant (MA) feature by default in the pending 6.3 release finished with
a decision to do so with one update the UI. Which would show the user a
link, on the dialog box which starts the process, to a wiki page with
detailed information on what was possible with MA presently and information
on how to perform a migration with or without use of the MA tool.

Caolán McNamra was quick about setting up the code for that URL link (Thank
you!) and provisionally used a URL for the wiki page of:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/HowTo/MigrateFromHSQLDB

That location makes sense IMO. Currently that page doesn't exist.

There was a page started for the migration assistant a while back at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/FirebirdMigration I think
it would be best to retire that page, replaced by the new page under
Documentation/How To. It could be raided for some content of course, but
there isn't much there by way of a How To/Tutroial style anyway.

The new page will be setup to take advantage of the MediaWiki translation
extension. ( got some info on setting that up yesterday on IRC).

I thought about top level categories for the new page, which you can see
here https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Drew/tmpMA

That is about it for this email which was mostly to kick this off and get
some wisdom and feedback form the team.

Best wishes,

Drew

#2

Hi Drew,

In the ESC meeting yesterday the question of including the Migration
Assistant (MA) feature by default in the pending 6.3 release finished with
a decision to do so with one update the UI. Which would show the user a
link, on the dialog box which starts the process, to a wiki page with
detailed information on what was possible with MA presently and information
on how to perform a migration with or without use of the MA tool.

Seems there have people decided to do this who didn't use any database
in LO. Migration has many unsolved problems and also the internal
Firebird new bugs, which doesn't exist in HSQLDB ...
And now we should inform how to migrate? I am missing arguments for this
step.
So much databases won't run well when migrating to Firebird with the
Migrating Assistant. I could inform how to migrate, but the first I
would write down: Do all this with a copy of your database and don't
wonder if you are missing views, queries won't run as expected etc. Is
this really the intention of this HowTo?

Regards

Robert

#3

Howdy Robert,

Yes - for me that is exactly the point of this - to say 'DO THIS WITH A
COPY' and then address the facts of the situation as they are.

Firebird engine went live with the 6.2 release so that horse is already out
of the barn, as some would put it.

There exists a real desire by a good number of people, for what seems to me
reasonable reasons, to remove support for current embedded HSQL database
code in an expeditious fashion.

This migration assistant piece is something that would be nice but it is
not a requirement for many of those using Base files.

What would be best now would be to put together some cogent, concise steps
for folks to follow in moving off of the embedded HSQL Base file to a new
Base file with the database schema and data moved to another system, which
could be another embedded Base file using Firebird or could be to an
external rdbms.

It is also known exactly as to what causes problems for the current,
assuming nothing is fixed before release, migration assistant code; so this
can tell users check your files for the following and if you don't use any
of <these data types/features> run the migration assistant with confidence.
If they do have known problem files then offer them steps they can take
today, or let them know they should wait for fixes to the migration
assistant in later 6.3 releases.

At least that is my thoughts.

Best wishes

Drew

#4

To follow up on my last email and the point about getting folks to migrate
off the embedded HSQL Base file format to an external rdbms - we are
already most of the way there with an existing How To style post on I think
both the ASK site and the AOO hosted forums - I'm sure about the later -
wich shows how to use an external HSQL server for the data (with more going
on in that posts then is needed here). It would be a straightforward
process to use a big chunk of that updated for use as a one time migration
How To. I'm sure the author would have no problem with putting the content
to the secondary use and it would be as simple a migration as possible with
HSQL rdbms being both the old and new engine.

#5

Hi Drew,

To follow up on my last email and the point about getting folks to migrate
off the embedded HSQL Base file format to an external rdbms - we are
already most of the way there with an existing How To style post on I think
both the ASK site and the AOO hosted forums - I'm sure about the later -
wich shows how to use an external HSQL server for the data (with more going
on in that posts then is needed here). It would be a straightforward
process to use a big chunk of that updated for use as a one time migration
How To. I'm sure the author would have no problem with putting the content
to the secondary use and it would be as simple a migration as possible with
HSQL rdbms being both the old and new engine.

I had written, a while back, such a document -- mostly in French -- titled as "Base - How to get rid of embedded HSQLDB".

This document is hosted by a friend of mine. You can download it from that page: https://numericoach.net/LibreOffice-Base-et-HSQLDB

FWIW.

Best regards,

#6

Perfect!

That is the way to start this and a translation with update as needed will
cover that migration path.

Thanks,

Drew

#7

Alright - did a Frankenstein Translation (courtesy google web service).
Jean-Francios also sent the original .odt and an .odg via a direct email,
which let me get the original images.
Put that all to a private directory on the NC server
Review only link for that and the other files is
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/KJ7q6LdpkdwmEd9

So, easiest way to compare that is with the two pdf files:
original: hsql-base-v10a_-_jean-francois_nifenecker.pdf
FrankoTranslate: HSQL-base_AIBotTranslate-google.pdf (arrgh, the original
pdf automatically opens the outline in the pdf viewer but with this one I
must of missed a checkbox because you have to actually open it)

Anyway, I realize this is the workflow for translations work, so forgive me
for that. (I also took some liberties with the LO6x template and switched
to Ubuntu/Ubuntu Light font for everyting except the title is Vegur, just
to check it out and embedded the font in the odt)

So, this is pretty good structure I think. Will get to clean up of the
English and new screen shots next.

Drew

#8

Hi *,

https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/KJ7q6LdpkdwmEd9

Have had a look at this. It's a description how to change from internal
to external HSQLDB. Such a description is also part of the
Base-Handbook. The description of Jean-Francois will show many details
which I haven't written down in the Handbook.

One hint: Could be I don't understand the description in the right way,
but autovalue is possible in external databases. You have to set CALL
IDENTITY() for generated values in the advanced settings of the *.odb-file.

For the migration to Firebird we will need something like this:
http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/index.php?&Inhalt=hsqldb_firebird_migration

... but this also doesn't show the whole problem ...

Regards

Robert

#9

Hi,
the link should point to a localized wiki page in the ui language, if
available.
Thanks, m.

napisala:

#10

Hi *,

I have updated
http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/index.php?&Inhalt=hsqldb_firebird_migration

Will see if I will get to explain most of the problems (and
workarounds), which will appear while migrating from HSQLDB to Firebird.
- Views aren't migrated
- Tablenames and columnnmes must have less than 32 characters
- Datefields, timefields and date-time-fields will be migrated with
wrong values depending on the timezone (HSQLDB-bug)
- Subforms and parameter-queries aren't working
- Some functions in queries must be migrated later by the user

Could be there are more problems while migrating. I will test all this
with the databases of the German Base-Handbuch.

Regards

Robert

#11

Howdy,

Yes, that sounds about right if you are talking about either the Migration
Assistant or the standard Import Wizard (drag drop).

The road I'm going down is to move the schema by changing the DDL and the
data by changing the DML generated from the HSQLdb SCRIPT command.

Then running the DDL statements and the data load via the DML statements in
a new Firebird sdbc .odb. The queries, forms and reports come via drag drop.

Best wishes,

Drew

#12

Howdy,

Well, the LibreOffice 6.4 daily builds are available and the link to the,
currently empty, wiki page is included. (haven't found a 6.3 daily build
just yet, but I'm sure it will be there also when I do)

So, will put the beginnings of the page there this afternoon. Yes.

Best wishes,

Drew

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