Sorry didn't include Robert in the message - adding him. @Robert - please
read below.
Hi Robert, all,
Sorry didn't include Robert in the message - adding him. @Robert - please
read below.
Hi Robert,
So the news is not good (at least in my opinion). Of course you can
continue doing the videos but it seems like because you can't speak in 200
languages we can't link it in the help files. Having English only would
interfere with locale teams (I'm still unclear how but I'm no expert there
and one of the experts has guaranteed me that such a link would have dire
affects on the community).
So let me reformulate it a bit differently. First Robert, thanks a lot for
your contributions.
What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language. Even
if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's very
difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in a foreign
language.
So what you could do is just create a youtube channel and post the
videos...obviously visibility would be substantially less but, that's where
we are.
There are lot of other ways to advertise content created by the community.
For example post each uploaded video to a twitter dedicated account linked
to a FB and G+ pages, post to the documentation blog, etc
You could then create a wiki somewhere useful that links to your videos.
That's another possibility and link it to the site
Wish I had better news - I'm still looking into the possibilities but
right now there seems to be a big blocker in getting such a cool addition
to the product.
Yes for the product, that does not mean it's the only way to give
visibility to Robert's contributions.
Cheers
Sophie
Best,
JoelSorry for the direct message, was suppose to go on the list
Cheers
SophieSujet : Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Video Tutorial Link in Help
Date : Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:00:35 +0100
De : Sophie <gautier.sophie@gmail.com>
Pour : Joel Madero <jmadero.dev@gmail.com>Hi Joel,
> Hi All,
>
> We have a volunteer (Robert Alexander) who has started making some
tutorial
> videos that are supposed to coincide with help files.
>
> My hope is that we can figure out some way to link these files within
the
> help itself. Any thoughts on that being a possibility? If we use
youtube
> (at least at the beginning) I believe that translating is possible for
> subtitles.
>
> A couple examples are below:
> https://youtu.be/Q8V-5yeTHCM
> https://youtu.be/DtEzyM28rlc
>
>
> Thoughts much appreciated. This would obviously be an ongoing task
but I
> think that having tutorials for lots of features would be quite
helpful for
> those who aren't capable or interested in reading help files (for
whatever
> reason).
But UI will still be in English, and handling translations in Youtube is
not really ideal. Also, lot of people don't have external internet
access or have YT blocked in their company so they won't be able to
access them anyway.The best would be to create a dedicated playlist on TDF channel like we
have done for French, see:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0pdzjvYW9RFl1ZRu8MkE3QxWQSt7Xktk
and link it to the documentation on the wiki.Cheers
Sophie--
Sophie Gautier sophie.gautier@documentfoundation.org
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
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I have read the thread, but being in bed with flu since this morning I
could not replicate. I think that help videos are a great marketing
tool, which we can use in several ways. Once I am out of the flu, I will
get in touch with Robert (and Joel) to keep this ball rolling. Best, Italo
I have read the thread, but being in bed with flu since this morning I
could not replicate. I think that help videos are a great marketing
tool, which we can use in several ways. Once I am out of the flu, I will
get in touch with Robert (and Joel) to keep this ball rolling. Best, Italo
Best to keep Sophi in the loop also as she has a very different
interpretation of how to proceed.
Best,
Joel
So let me reformulate it a bit differently. First Robert, thanks a lot
for your contributions.
What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language.
Even if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's
very difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in
a foreign language.
Just for full transparency here. Sophie and I had an extended talk on
chat and I'm of the belief that to prevent this from getting into help
files because other locales aren't doing the same is not the smartest
way to move forward. I instead would prefer including it and then
supporting locales to do the same - in the respective languages, with
the right GUI, etc....These then would be linked in the locales help
files and it would empower the community, expand on the product, and
give visibility to a great tool (videos that literally show exactly how
to use features).
To prevent a significant chunk of our user base to have this tool is
problematic. The solution of having a much much less visible "solution"
is not in the best interest of our users.
I'd prefer discussing a better solution, one where we can agree that the
tool is awesome for users, that the more visibility the better, and one
that empowers contributors to follow Robert's lead and developer
tutorial videos in their respective languages.
I look forward to hearing Italo's thoughts after he has healed 
Best,
Joel
Sophie wrote:
What we do not want in localised version is content in en_US language.
Even if the sound is translated, UI still will be in English and it's
very difficult to focus on what you learn when all what you see is in
a foreign language.
In terms of the content that we provide on a per-language basis, I
agree that it's important to be able to provide consistency to those
users who desire it. For those who wish to see only content in
language XYZ, then we should strive to show them only content in XYZ.
Just for full transparency here. Sophie and I had an extended talk on
chat and I'm of the belief that to prevent this from getting into help
files because other locales aren't doing the same is not the smartest
way to move forward. I instead would prefer including it and then
supporting locales to do the same - in the respective languages, with
the right GUI, etc....These then would be linked in the locales help
files and it would empower the community, expand on the product, and
give visibility to a great tool (videos that literally show exactly how
to use features).
For those who are multilingual or just adventurous, I can see the
potential benefit if users could choose on a program-wide level to
toggle on extra non-localized content (let's call it "Extended
Documentation") for each page of the Help. If we were to have rather
stringent rules about what content (format, length, structure,
license, etc..) could be included in this fashion, then we'd have a
decent roadmap on what content we'd like to see localized next.
If we're clever about how we include Extended Documentation, we could
even recruit for translation/localization by adding a small message to
any non-localized content such as "Want to see this content in
$CURRENT_LOCALE? Click here to help out!"
I'd prefer discussing a better solution, one where we can agree that the
tool is awesome for users, that the more visibility the better, and one
that empowers contributors to follow Robert's lead and developer
tutorial videos in their respective languages.
I'd suggest that any video content included or linked from the
Documentation be provided in a similar fashion to our existing text
content. Off the top of my head, this would include:
- Licensing under CC-BY or CC-BY-SA 3+
- Use of free/open file formats
- "Source" video archived safely somewhere in TDF infra
- Inclusion of extra source materials (e.g. talking points used to
make the video, example docs displayed or demonstrated during the
video, etc..) with the archived source video to help others who may
wish to edit or reshoot the content
- Ability to Download or view video using only Free Software (Archive.org?)
- Strong encouragement for any cross-platform content to be
demonstrated using the Doc Team's preferred Free Software GUI shell
[1]
It would be great to have subtitles provided for each source video
from the get-go, however that's definitely a task that can be handled
independently, freeing up video creators to create more videos...
Cheers,
--R
[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots
Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Software_screenshots
Hi everyone,
thank you all for putting so much consideration into this discussion.
I am quite happy to independently create tutorial videos for LibreOffice if
it turns out that this is the best route for the project as a whole. I was
originally going to do that, but decided it would be good to get in touch
in case you needed specific kinds of tutorials. So whatever happens, my
plan is to make LibreOffice tutorials for the foreseeable future.
My current workflow means that I create transcripts(technically scripts) of
my videos, which may be helpful to you as no one will have to go back and
create them if they are needed.
Regards,
Robert
Sounds great Robert! I'm still trying to figure out how we can link in
the help files as I really do think that will be the most beneficial for
our user base. I'm going to reach out to a couple developers and so long
as we can find something that:
1) Doesn't impact local teams workflow;
2) Allows for easy translation for any other contributors
I think we can move forward but it will require some backend work. Let
me poke around but if you create a channel and start creating videos
that coincide with help files that will be fantastic.
Thanks again for your great work
Best,
Joel
Hi,
Creation of a video for a help is good idea. But, in my opinion, before as we
will accept a decision about including video or links to a video in the Help,
we must solve a few issue.
1. Who will make it?
We have huge amount not translated information (the help, FAQ, Guides) that
destined for a help of users. [1][2][3] The Help has a lot of incomplete and
outdated information, moreover, it requires reorganization and leading to
standards. In order to bring it into order, the documentation team needs to
have a lot more people, but they are not. Guides are better, but if you look
at the gap from the current version of the LO, you'll see that Guides have the
same problem. More free-form of documentation is FAQ in Wiki TDF, but it also
requires the big contribution.
2. What will be made?
I like the idea of video, because it can help users with disabilities easier
to learn of the LO. But, what do you propose to give to users? If this is not
reading and show what is happening in the Help article, it will not be the
help video and it isn't clear why links in the Help. If it is the help, it
will be necessary to quickly make changes to the video, that the video will
correspond to the Help.
But I still doubt that the video should be included in an article in the Help.
3. What standards corresponds to the video?
As we already know, we are trying to bring documentation standards. [4] I am
not going to touch on a lot of issues, I note a few that are on the surface.
The sound should be without unnecessary noise and the voice of the announcer
should be professional and belongs to a native speaker. If the first achieve
easy with a help of technology, the second is difficult. I read lectures for 2
years for an audience, and tried to make video tutorials, and I understand
that creature of the high-quality video tutorial is difficult. [5]
There are also more simple questions such as the cursor does not have to dance
to the monitor, keystrokes be displayed and so on.
The same questions apply to the l10n team. If you look at the Help, Guides and
FAQs, then you see that the translation lags far behind for many languages.
On the other hand we have FAQs in the wiki TDF. The FAQs are demand more than
all the help and it does not have the strict requirements of the
documentation. Dennis Roczek have installed the plugin to embed videos in the
wiki TDF from YouTube. And you can start with that to make a video for the
FAQs. In addition, it allows to carry out an experiment to make sure that the
project is viable and will not be in a state of almost coma like almost all
the documentation for LO.
[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
[3] https://help.libreoffice.org/Main_Page
[4] https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2015/10/24/tdf-freelance-job-opening-201510-02-documentation-lead/
[5] https://youtu.be/Ae0pAV3WEQc?list=PLq31XmmWhfYFiUBzCSb8Xquf5FMiDxRfs
Best regards,
Lera
Hi Robert,
Hi everyone,
thank you all for putting so much consideration into this discussion.I am quite happy to independently create tutorial videos for LibreOffice if
it turns out that this is the best route for the project as a whole. I was
originally going to do that, but decided it would be good to get in touch
in case you needed specific kinds of tutorials. So whatever happens, my
plan is to make LibreOffice tutorials for the foreseeable future.
Thank you very much for that. We have an official TDF channel on YouTube
if you are interested to reference or upload your videos there. For now,
the only ones that are referenced are those done by
TheFrugalComputerGuy, see [1] for Writer for example. In any case, I'm
managing the channel for the moment so don't hesitate to poke me.
My current workflow means that I create transcripts(technically scripts) of
my videos, which may be helpful to you as no one will have to go back and
create them if they are needed.
ok, for the rest, I let you see with the documentation team. Lera has a
very good overview of where the documentation is aiming, so I'm sure you
will be able to find a way together.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL94682FC0D2ADF410
Cheers
Sophie
Hi All,
Just dropping my two cents on how it could be achieved in the help xml files and leaves room for localizers to create related videos, as well as it being excluded from localized help not wanted.
Video tutorials links would be added to the "relatedtopics" <section> found at the bottom of help pages and would be added similar to this.
<link href="https://youtu.be/Q8V-5yeTHCM">Video: LibreOffice Overview and getting started</link>
Translations where the tutorial shouldnt be seen would have translators simply not translate the link text, which would result in the link being invisible to those users. This is the simplest means i believe that can satisfy all parties/scenarios.
The issue of the video being online and users not having access to the internet shouldnt be a barrier to this, as we link to online help as well as the extension website which arent accessible without the internet. If a company chooses to block youtube and their employees require access to these videos, that is an internal matter of the company and this shouldnt penalize other users.
An alternative approach for the help xml would require the creation of a <switch> tag that handles locales and would require the modification of the help viewer to work with it. Below is an example.
<switch select="locale">
<case select="en-US,en-UK,en-GB">
<paragraph id="par_id121420150402161618" role="paragraph" xml-lang="en-US"><link href="https://youtu.be/Q8V-5yeTHCM">Video: LibreOffice Overview and getting started</link></paragraph>
</case>
</switch>
Regards,
Yousuf 'Jay' Philips
Hi
There are some video tutorials at;
http://spoken-tutorial.org/
They cover many different OpenSource programs so if you scroll down
the first drop-down you will see quite a few done for LibreOffice.
The 2nd drop-down allows people to change to a lot of different
languages, although no European ones apart from English. English
seems to be their starting language which they then get translated
into the many other languages they offer.
Regards from
Tom