I missed this sentence when I was writing my earlier note. How does
the result look? Are things laid out well? Are the fonts OK (not weird
sizes in unexpected places)? Etc.
--Jean
Again: simple is one thing; good result is another. IIRC, any ePub
extension worked even worse than Calibre for producing acceptable
ePubs from our docs. However, I've not tried this in a long time, so
it might be okay or even great now. I certainly encourage Robinson or
someone to try both solutions and see how it goes.
--Jean
Sorry about so many notes in response. Yes, of course it's possible to
adjust the workflow. All we need is someone to do the work of
conversion and verifying that the resulting ePub is of acceptable
quality.
--Jean
Hello
I agree with Jean about converting the guide files into ePub format about getting a good-looking result.
I have tried a couple of times to convert a document file into an ePub format and iBooks format. By their very nature, ePub formats have to be very flexible to account for different resolutions and sizes of computer displays. The biggest problem is the OO style names used in the files which takes away this flexibility. If all the style names in the templates were converted into the “standard”names (Heading 1, Heading 2, and so on) used in other software would help in the conversion process. I think the majority of conversion programs expect standardised names for styles.
Solution - convert a template to use standard styles, then try a conversion. Any volunteers?
Regards
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Hi 
There have been enquiries on the Users Mailing List about how to
convert documents into ePub format and we just point them to external
tools such as Calibre. I thought Caligra also did this better than
LO?
Heck, i think i've been getting muddled about the similarity between
names but luckily i've rarely taken part in those threads and when i
do i just point them to discussions here. People on the Users List
have kept trying to get better results with LO but we are not quite
there yet, unless something radical has happened in the last couple of
months (and with the fast pace of LO development that is always
possible).
I think it's important to help people move away from the notion of one
massively bloated tool to do everything and move towards the idea of
independent specialist programs that co-operate with each other. In
the tech press people are starting to talk about "eco-systems" and it
might be good to push that idea as LibreOffice/OpenOffice seems to
have always been good at working well with other programs and suites.
Regards from
Tom
Tom,
All of that is somewhat irrelevant to the issue that Peter and I are
talking about. The conversion tool (whatever it is) has to use the ODT
produced by LO as its starting point.
--Jean
Hello
I agree with Jean about converting the guide files into ePub format about getting a good-looking result.
I've run a few baseline tests using LibreOffice, Calibre, and a couple
of extensions that output EPUB. Results are here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/EPUB#Converting_ODF_to_EPUB
Take a look at the end product and see what you think. I think we're
getting pretty close...
I have tried a couple of times to convert a document file into an ePub format and iBooks format. By their very nature, ePub formats have to be very flexible to account for different resolutions and sizes of computer displays. The biggest problem is the OO style names used in the files which takes away this flexibility. If all the style names in the templates were converted into the "standard"names (Heading 1, Heading 2, and so on) used in other software would help in the conversion process. I think the majority of conversion programs expect standardised names for styles.
Solution - convert a template to use standard styles, then try a conversion. Any volunteers?
Sounds like a good idea. It would be great if someone could convert a
template to use standard styles and then re-run the tests on the wiki
page and see if that gives us better results.
Cheers,
--R
Hello
Had a quick look at the bottom three examples on the wiki page, the three that seemed to have the least number of errors. In my opinion, all three examples are not good enough to publish because of the formatting problems, for example:
1. No widow and orphan control
2. Headings not being kept with following paragraph
3. Figure captions not with its figure
4. Not in the same format as the template. There will be differences on this, but at least we could maintain colour, font size, and so on.
5. Notes not formatted correctly.
6. Cautions split over two pages.
I will have a go at doing a basic conversion of the chapter template to see if we can get closer to a good ePub format to use.
Regards
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Hello
If you follow the link there is an Test LO iBook in my Dropbox account.
Unfortunately you will need iBooks Author to open the file. This is a free
app you can download and if you are operating Mac OS. Sorry, but it is the
only app I have at the moment that can do this kind of publishing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t94v0kunqlpziqa/Test%20LO%20iBook.iba
This is only a sample and is my idea of how an epub book should look.
Definitely not finished. If you can view it, then you will notice that I
followed the LO template fairly closely, but the template has to change.
Note, Tips and Cautions are presently done as tables in the LO chapter
template, which does create problems when going to epub format.
Let me know what you think. I am now going to investigate a Linux app I can
download to my Ubuntu virtual machine so that I can create a sample using
ePub format.
Regards
PeterS
Hello
If you follow the link there is an Test LO iBook in my Dropbox account.
Unfortunately you will need iBooks Author to open the file. This is a free
app you can download and if you are operating Mac OS. Sorry, but it is the
only app I have at the moment that can do this kind of publishing.https://www.dropbox.com/s/t94v0kunqlpziqa/Test%20LO%20iBook.iba
Thanks for running a test!
This is only a sample and is my idea of how an epub book should look.
Definitely not finished. If you can view it, then you will notice that I
followed the LO template fairly closely, but the template has to change.
Note, Tips and Cautions are presently done as tables in the LO chapter
template, which does create problems when going to epub format.Let me know what you think. I am now going to investigate a Linux app I can
download to my Ubuntu virtual machine so that I can create a sample using
ePub format.
Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/) is a FOSS, cross-platform
application that runs on Mac, Windows, and GNU/Linux. It might be a
good tool for us to prototype epub-compatible templates.
Best,
--R
Sigil is also a good choice as it allows you to see into the guts of the
epub file and manually change things. You can easily see the effects of the
change so if it is not good, you can change it back.
Shelagh
It's true that Sigil is very useful for refining the structure of epub
files converted from other file formats. I use Sigil to "clean up" the
many epub files I originally create with Writer. Like others here, I
have experimented with various ways of converting the User Guides to
epub, with much the same results. The issue is that the template used to
create the guides includes many styles and formatting arrangements which
do not readily translate into the limited number of xhtml tags used in
epub documents. While it is definitely possible to work on converted
guides using Sigil, the amount of editing work involved would be more
than that required to recreate the guides in Writer using an epub
"friendly" template of styles. Even then I doubt that the resulting epub
edition would have the same aesthetics and quality of the originals.
If I can find some time (a commodity in short supply) over the next
week, I will try experimenting with some alternative conversion methods
and report back if I find anything that might be worth considering.
Dave
Hello
I agree with you Dave.
The Ooo styles names in the LO templates need to be changed into the “standard”names already used in several software packages, such as Heading 1, Heading 2 and so on. When I created my sample in iBooks Author it was reasonably easy to convert style names to ones generally used. This meant copying and pasting each individual paragraph, then create a the style from the paragraph attributes. You only have to do this once for each style as you can then copy all the text in and allocate the new styles to the paragraphs. However, each graphic had to be copied and pasted individually.
My sample is not perfect, but I think with a little thought we can create a good looking ePub format document that closely resembles the PDF and ODT versions of the user guides.
I am now going to create a sample using Sigil that was suggested by Martin Saffron. Watch this space and you will see my attempt.
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Hello
Another sample of an LO chapter in ePub format at the following link to my
Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xick4zzbzc4peny/test%20chapter.epub
This sample was created as a blank document in LO Writer and using standard
style names where possible, for example Heading 1, Heading 2,Text Body, and
so on. I did create a couple of styles to use for the note and tip that are
in the sample. I then used to eLAIX toolbar in LO Writer when formatting the
text and exporting to ePub format.
There is a couple of points to note if we are going to use ePub format for
our guides:
1. The font will change to Times when exporting, but relevant font size and
colour are kept.
2. Any figures cannot be placed in LO frames, but have to be inserted
without a frame to show after ePub conversion.
3. You cannot use tables for Notes, Tips, or Cautions because you cannot
control the width of the table when you export. This is why they appear a
little different in the sample.
4. What you see will depend on your display resolution and size. Also the
size of the window when you open the sample in an ePub reader will affect
how it looks. The ePub format is a flexible format that changes to suit when
a reader opens a file.
5. Any template for creating an ePub guide is going to have to be very
simple so that it does run foul of the restricted formatting used when
creating this type of document.
Does anybody know of an ePub creator that is free and easy to use, that is
not having to enter HTML code to get the right format to display when you
create an ePub document. I have tried Sigil, which is not bad, but still
trying to work out how to use it correctly.
Please let me know what you think.
Regards
PeterS
Forgot to add one thing.
You cannot simply open an LO document that has been created using the LO
chapter template. There is too much junk HTML code that causes problems when
you convert to ePub format. I started with using New to create a blank
document and copied a plain text version of the chapter into the new
document to help get rid of some of the junk HTML code.
Regards
PeterS
When you use free software, you often get what you paid for. Myself, I would prefer owning a motor vehicle that was not free, if reliability and ease of operation were desired--at a moderate cost.
The following URL links to a recent review of proprietary eBook-publishing software:
http://ebooks-software-review.toptenreviews.com/
Gary
Hello Gary
I have checked that review list you sent. The software looks interesting, but I am a Mac user and the software mentioned in the review are for Windows. I should have said that I am looking for an ePub creator program that is compatible with Mac OS.
Peter Schofield
At a cost outlay of $20, I'll likely test that #1-rated app (whose four ratings parameters were all 10s) myself, once I get time after finishing up my own numerous leisure-time projects.
There seem to be several Mac eBook converters out there, of which some are freeware. Don't Macs still have decent Wintel emulators?
As far as style names for LO/OO templates go, for many reasons some three years ago I switched over to employing those factory-default style names that MS Word employs wherever possible--primarily because more authors/editors would use them than LO/OO. Only rarely is there a need to employ custom style names--just redefine the parameters of the defaults instead. In a similar fashion, the developers of various converters and other apps would likely also use the Word default style names with their own apps.
Gary
Another sample of an LO chapter in ePub format...
This sample was created as a blank document in LO Writer and using standard
style names where possible, for example Heading 1, Heading 2,Text Body, and
so on. I did create a couple of styles to use for the note and tip that are
in the sample. I then used to eLAIX toolbar in LO Writer when formatting the
text and exporting to ePub format.
Neat!
I see that the hyperlinks in the ToC on the last page are clickable,
but those on page #2 are not. I had the same experience with the eLAIX
extension. Calibre's converter was able to turn those into proper
hyperlinks.
There is a couple of points to note if we are going to use ePub format for
our guides:1. The font will change to Times when exporting, but relevant font size and
colour are kept.
Any particular reason for this one? I believe that one can embed
fonts, etc.. into EPUB docs.
2. Any figures cannot be placed in LO frames, but have to be inserted
without a frame to show after ePub conversion.
3. You cannot use tables for Notes, Tips, or Cautions because you cannot
control the width of the table when you export. This is why they appear a
little different in the sample.
4. What you see will depend on your display resolution and size. Also the
size of the window when you open the sample in an ePub reader will affect
how it looks. The ePub format is a flexible format that changes to suit when
a reader opens a file.
5. Any template for creating an ePub guide is going to have to be very
simple so that it does run foul of the restricted formatting used when
creating this type of document.
Some of these sound like direct limitations, but some might just be a
reflection on the current conversion process. When using Calibre to
transform ODT -> EPUB, one can specify a separate CSS file. Perhaps we
can bridge some of these problems using similar, automated means.
Best,
--R
When MS Word and other documents are converted to (X)HTML files without style sheets, every element in the document is individually directly formatted, which is very inefficient--as you likely already know. So, yes indeed, something like CSS files are almost a practical necessity.
Gary