Hi Peter,
Hello Regina again
The link in your email does not work.
I didn't follow the thread but maybe here you can find what you search for:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/deutsch/arbeitsordner/Archiv_alte_OOo_Dokumente/draw
Hi Peter,
PeeWee schrieb:
Hello Regina
My German is very limited - no problem in German bars and restaurants
and paying there bill. I did spend two years in Hamburg and learnt
some German from the people I became friends with. However that was a
long time ago.
I still struggling with English. My written English is often strange and it is difficult for me to understand spoken English.
You have made 3D objects a little clearer with your explanation. What
puzzles me is why is there such a complication with 3D objects?
Let's go back in history. In StarOffice and in the sequel in OOo1 only some kind of shapes exists. The status bar shows in the left field, which kind of object it is. For example, you will see "Rectangle selected" or "Callout selected" or "Parallelogram selected" or "Bézier curve selected" ...
This draw objects can be turned to 3D objects. The methods are rotation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_of_revolution) and extrusion (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrusion_(Geometrie); I find no English one).
There exists a 3D engine with a lot of features, but the UI is confusing and bad designed, not changed since StarOffice times. The UI is in great want of refresh and redesign.
These classical draw objects were not able to store the features of the "Autoforms" of Microsoft Office. Therefore a new kind of shapes were implemented in OOo2, the so called custom shapes. They got the ability to contain informations, how they should be rendered as 3D-extrusion-object. And they got a new UI for setting this properties. For all the different custom shapes you get only the one string "shape selected" in the status bar. At the same time the "Fontwork gallery" was introduced. From a technical view, that are custom shapes as well.
Once
a 2D object is extruded into 3D then you should be able to use all
the tools that are available for the ready made 3D objects.
The ready made 3D objects are not only simple 3D objects, but they are 3D scenes. You cannot have such 3D object without a root 3D scene. Such 3D scene cannot include custom shapes. There is no way to write such thing into the file format. And there exists no requests to change the spec in this direction. If you convert a custom shape by the tools "To 3D" or "To 3D rotation object" they are converted to a polygon or to a curve first, but the user is not notified about that. Therefore the 3D dialog is not suitable for custom shapes.
To get a deeper understanding of this very different kind of objects, it might be worth reading the spec, section 10.5 "3D Shapes" and 10.6 "Custom Shape". [http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html]
This
complication makes it a difficult thing to get across simple enough
for a novice user to understand, so your help will be appreciated.
I agree, that is a challenge. In contrast to the old German version, I now would make two strictly independent sections, one for "3D Shapes" and a new section covering all the properties and handlings of "Custom Shapes". There exists not only their special way of extruding, but also the yellow handles to vary the shapes, and they differ in the way text is used. You can even write your own custom shapes, but sadly their is no UI for that, but you have to write into the file directly. I had a talk about it last FOSDEM.
The current drawing toolbar in LO makes it more complicate. OOo had the classical rectangle and ellipse in the toolbar, and you could turn them into 3D shapes. But the current drawing toolbar has dropped them, and instead has included the custom shapes "Rectangle" and "Ellipse" which are already in the drop-down list "Basic shapes" of the custom shapes. To use the classical shapes, you have to customize the toolbar first. The consequence of which is, that users do not get the properties they are used to, rounded corners for example.
If you have questions about the shapes, please ask. I do not have time enough to write a full text, but will comment on single problems.
Kind regards
Regina
Hello Regina (again you say;-)))
Your explanation has helped tremendously. I shall now create two separate sections for Chap 7 Working with 3D Objects.
With regards
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Hello
I have withdrawn Version 4.1 Chapter 7. Due to information from one of our
German colleagues (Regina), this chapter needs alteration to distinguish the
two main types of 3D objects that are available. At the moment, the present
chapter does not explain it clearly enough.
Regards
PeterS
Hi Peter,
I have put a version with further comments into the Feedback folder.
Kind regards
Regina
PeeWee schrieb:
Hello
Version 4.1 of the Chapter 7 Working with 3D Objects as now available on the
ODF Authors website ready for review and comments. It has been rewritten to
incorporate the comments and suggestions from Regina.
I have been a little quiet lately, but other matters have been tackling
precedence on my time. I am slowly building back up to having time for LO
duties.
With regards
PeterS
Hello
Version 4.1 of the Draw Guide Chapter 8 Connections, Flowcharts and
Organization Charts is now available in the Drafts LO4.1 folder on the ODF
Authors website ready for review and comment.
Regards
PeterS
Chapters 7 and 8 of the Draw Guide v4.1 have been published after
minor editing by me. As always, they are available for further review
by others.
--Jean
Hello
I recently joined the LibreOffice documentation mailing list and decided to begin my contribution by updating Chapter 9 of the Draw guide (Adding And Formatting Text) to version 4.1. It has now been uploaded to the ODF Authors website for review and comments.
Whilst there was not a great deal that needed to be updated, there is one screen shot that will need replacing. The Special Characters dialogue box (Figure 8, on page 9) in the version I am using (LibreOffice 4.1.3.2 on Windows 8.1) is re-organised, with clickable action boxes now found at the bottom of window, along with a new 'Delete Last' box added.
I recall reading in the instructional documentation that screen shots from Mac or Linux operating systems are preferable to those from Windows. As such, I hope that someone will be able to update the screen shot on my behalf.
I also wonder whether the slightly different placement of tabs in the Graphic Styles dialogue box (Figure 10, on page 12) would necessitate replacement of the screen shot. The 'Text' and 'Text Animation' tabs are on the second row in the version I am using but this seems a minor detail.
Regards,
Martin
Hello Martin
We are at cross purposes here. I am updating the Draw Guide to Version 4.1 which means two of us were working on the same chapter. I shall now use your version to complete Chapter 9 and reissue onto the ODF Authors website. This will mean that Chapter 10 & 11 will follow very quickly.
With regards
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Hello Peter
I'm terribly sorry; I should have checked before I started.
I've just taken another look at the publications page (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications) and would like advice as to which area I can begin work on. Is the objective to bring all guides up to date (4.1.x branch) or are 4.0.x guides sufficient?
Thanks,
Martin
Not a problem Martin.
Your work has helped me greatly and I am now going through Chap 9, mainly the screenshots need changing. It will be on the ODF Authors website Monday or Tuesday.
I have been upgrading the Draw (4.1) and will complete the remaining chapters fairly quickly. Then it will be onto the Calc Guide to bring up to 4.1. The Calc chapters are being upgraded to 4.0 by other volunteers. I shall then upgrade the chapters to 4.1 so that the Calc Guide has the same look and feel throughout the guide. After that I will be moving onto the Impress Guide which is now at 4.0 to upgrade to 4.1 maybe 4.2. Just have to wait and see.
I think the best bet is to move onto the other LO modules because I think there is a shortage of volunteers to upgrade the remaining modules. I am sure Jean will advise which is the best to have a go at.
With regards
Peter Schofield
psauthor@libreoffice.org
Jean here. General comment to Martin: We've been tending to skip a
point release for Getting Started and the Writer Guide, because we
haven't been able to keep them updated fast enough while at the same
time improving the content, not just updating it. Calc Guide is
something of an orphan and, as you can see, hasn't been updated since
v3.4.
The objective at this point is to finish the Calc Guide to 4.1 and
start updating GS and WG to v4.2. The first beta of LO 4.2 is due out
next week (see Release Plan,
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/4.2 and the Release
Notes, https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2
So, my suggestions to you are:
1) Go through Chapters 5, 6, 12, 13 of Calc Guide (currently listed as
LO v4.0) to see if anything needs changing for v4.1 -- or if anything
wasn't updated correctly from v3.4 to v 4.0. Also Appendix C hasn't
been updated from v3.4; you could do that. Other chapters have already
been updated to v4.1, but Peter hasn't been through all of them for
look and feel updates. People are working on Ch14 and Appendixes A and
B. I'm really hoping to get that book done by the end of November.
2) Start identifying which chapter of Getting Started and/or other
books will need updating for v4.2. Add info to this page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks
Also would be useful to go through the existing GS book to see what
else needs updating or improvement. PLEASE NOTE: Most chapters in this
book cover material also included in other books, though topics and
level of detail vary. Therefore, noting necessary updates changes in
chapter lists for other books is very helpful.
3) I am still looking for one or more people to help with updating the
Base Handbook, which was translated from German to English. In this
case, the work involves translating new material that was added to the
German handbook for v4.1. If you are interested in helping with this
work, I can provide more info & point you to the relevant files.
4) Work on Base Guide (different book, written from scratch in
English). If you're interested in that, I'll provide more info. I'm in
the middle of rationalizing chapters of that book following recent
work by Dan Lewis (and earlier work that I've neglected to follow up
on).
--Jean
Which is more urgent, the Base Handbook or the Calc Wiki? I can do
either but not both.
Hazel
Jean,
I would also like to know what needs to be done. I'm ready to help in any
way.
Best,
Preston
Hi 
If i had a vote i would vote for the wiki. There is a previous
iteration of the Handbook but the wiki doesn't have a previous version
at all yet.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
It might be worth sending a mail to the Users Mailing List to recruit
new people for the specific task. A general shout-out grabs some
people but others react better when they hear about a specific task
that is likely to have an end-date (and then stick around afterwards
for "just one more")
Regards from
Tom
Hard to choose; IMO both are high priority, so it's really up to you.
Finishing the Calc FAQs is certainly a good thing to do.
More general comment to other team members: there are other French
FAQs and tutorials to be translated in English, if you feel
comfortable doing that. Please coordinate on this list, so you don't
duplicate effort by other team members, including in the French group.
Original French FAQs are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/FR/FAQ
English FAQs are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
--Jean
Preston,
Can you do translations from either French or German? Otherwise, what
interests you from the list in my earlier note in this thread? Some
items on that list can be conveniently broken into smaller tasks that
take less of a time commitment than others.
--Jean
Hello Jean,
Thanks for the information. I'm interested in helping write the Base guide so would appreciate more information on that.
In the meantime, I will take a look at chapter 5 (Using Graphics) of the Calc guide. If I have any spare time, I will identify and note any chapters that will need updating upon release of LO 4.2.
Thanks,
Martin