How to insert or embed drawings

Greetings,
I am about to create a figure in Draw for one of the Base Guide documents. I can either create an external Draw file and insert that file into the document, or I can use the embedded (OLE) Draw version and have the figure embedded in the document. The former requires the Draw file to be maintained (saved) along with the document, risk being lost, and if lost, need to be re-created if future editing is required. The OLE version goes with the document, has no additional file to maintain, and will always be there for future editing. I prefer the OLE style, but what is the consensus of the documentation team?
Thanks.
Girvin Herr

Hi :slight_smile:
Fwiw my thought would be OLE but keep a copy of the original youself and if possible find somewhere useful to upload the file to so that editors can find it again if something does go wrong.

Would it be a good idea for someone to set-up a wiki-page (or few) to put all the screenshots on?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Tom,
Those are all good ideas. We are back to backups again.

I was wondering about the screenshots myself. The other day, I had the "opportunity" to look at the old Getting Started guide and noticed the Base screenshots there just seemed nicer than the ones in the Base Guide I am working on. I was wondering about a screenshot library that authors could use for their documents. That way, the screenshots would not only be the nicest obtainable, but they would be consistent from one document to the next. That would be less confusing for the readers, especially the novices and newbies. Also, the authors would not need to make their own screenshots, unless what they wanted was not in the library. Some thought may be needed on how that library would be organized, so as to minimize lookup time for the authors.
Just a thought.
Girvin

Tom Davies wrote:

My suggestion is to create the figure in Draw, save it as a graphic file (usually PNG), and then insert the picture into the document. The team started to save all the screen shots used in each chapter, zip them into a file, and then upload that with document you are working on.
      I had already place all of the graphics I have used in each one of the Base chapters that I have done any writing in. I just had not uploaded the zipped graphics files. So, I corrected that just now. You should find these files in the Draft folder. (PlanningDesigningDatabase.zip for chapter 2 and DataInputAndRemoval for chapter 3.) I would appreciate if you would add any graphics to the appropriate graphic file. When you have finished the chapter upload both the chapter and graphic file if there are any additions. Just add your initials (_GRH_) and date uploaded.

--Dan

Dan Lewis wrote:

Greetings,
I am about to create a figure in Draw for one of the Base Guide documents. I can either create an external Draw file and insert that file into the document, or I can use the embedded (OLE) Draw version and have the figure embedded in the document. The former requires the Draw file to be maintained (saved) along with the document, risk being lost, and if lost, need to be re-created if future editing is required. The OLE version goes with the document, has no additional file to maintain, and will always be there for future editing. I prefer the OLE style, but what is the consensus of the documentation team?
Thanks.
Girvin Herr

My suggestion is to create the figure in Draw, save it as a graphic file (usually PNG), and then insert the picture into the document. The team started to save all the screen shots used in each chapter, zip them into a file, and then upload that with document you are working on.
     I had already place all of the graphics I have used in each one of the Base chapters that I have done any writing in. I just had not uploaded the zipped graphics files. So, I corrected that just now. You should find these files in the Draft folder. (PlanningDesigningDatabase.zip for chapter 2 and DataInputAndRemoval for chapter 3.) I would appreciate if you would add any graphics to the appropriate graphic file. When you have finished the chapter upload both the chapter and graphic file if there are any additions. Just add your initials (_GRH_) and date uploaded.

--Dan

Will do!
Now to recreate what I lost yesterday... :frowning:
Thanks.
Girvin

Hello Girvin

When I grab a screen shot or create an illustration, I save it as a PNG file. I then copy the file and paste it into a Writer document.

In my opinion, OLE objects are only really useful if your document is staying within the same directory structure because a link to an OLE object can easily be broken. I avoid OLE objects because the documents I create do get moved around a lot. Copy and paste or creating drawings directly in Writer should be a lot safer from getting lost.

Regards

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

Peter,
Thanks for the suggestion.
Your last sentence appears to me to be confused. When I state Draw OLE object, what I mean is:

    Insert -> Object -> OLE Object -> LibreOffice 3.6 Drawing

This creates a drawing at the cursor "directly in Writer", as you say, not as a separate file.
I have been doing a lot of drawings in my many documents this way and I have never had a problem with it. No such lost links. It seems to me that if the drawing and the method to edit it were in the document itself, and not in an external file, it would be a lot safer, accessible, and stable. But that is just my opinion. This is now a moot point, since that opinion has been overridden by the document team leader, who prefers inserting separate files and keeping them in a zipped file in the same directory as the document. That's okay with me too, if that is the policy. That is why I asked the original question - what is the preference?

IMHO, the only downside of using Draw as an OLE is that the OLE version of Draw has a feature subset of the stand-alone Draw program. For example, the OLE Draw does not have the Zoom capability, which makes it difficult sometimes to view the drawing properly when working on it. It also has some strange interactions with the document frame that it goes into, making it difficult to get the scale and position as one wants it inside the frame. That can be annoying sometimes and I am not privy as to why it was done that way.
Thanks again.
Girvin Herr

Peter Schofield wrote:

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, i think a few confusions going on.  Hopefully by team-leader you mean Dan (for Base) or Jean (the whole Docs Team).

When i put pictures in a document i usually just grab the image from the file-browser and drop it into the document and then resize, change anchor type and drag it into position.  Is that not OLE?  Clearly it's not DDL (or whatever that was) because i don't have to keep the image file handy.  (well, i do jic but only because of the bugs thing)

If i need to edit an image i never even try from inside the document.  It's either back tot he original or latest version i can find or right-click the image and save it outside the document.  It just feels wrong doing it inside the document but i might try it a few times from now on.
Regards from

Tom :slight_smile:

Hi. I have used a number of drawings from Draw in my Writer documents where I copy and paste from Draw. I find I can then edit them in Writer and they are embedded in the writer file.
Steve

Tom,
See below...

Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, i think a few confusions going on. Hopefully by team-leader you mean Dan (for Base) or Jean (the whole Docs Team).

Yes. Dan instructed me to use separate files inserted into the document. As I said, I have no problem with that. The whole reason I asked about which method to use, was to get direction. That question has been answered to my satisfaction.

When i put pictures in a document i usually just grab the image from the file-browser and drop it into the document and then resize, change anchor type and drag it into position. Is that not OLE?

No. OLE stands for Object Linking and Embedding. It was first developed by Microsoft as a method to invoke another application while inside an application. In this case, LO Writer is the main application and Draw is the other application. When an OLE object is instantiated in a document, double clicking on that object, in this case a drawing, will bring up the Draw editor and allow editing the object (drawing) while still in the document. When the OLE application is closed by clicking outside the object's frame, the document reverts to the framed object (drawing). Note that the OLE method is only for use with LO components. You can't take a screenshot and make it an OLE. (Well, on second thought maybe you can, if Draw will import it. But that would be nonsense, since Draw would probably not edit it. However, one could probably add widgets to the screenshot with Draw.) If you do the:

    Insert -> Object -> OLE Object

You will find a list of the LO components that can be used for OLE in Writer:

    Spreadsheet (Calc)
    Chart
    Drawing (Draw)
    Presentation (Impress)
    Formula

You get the picture (Is that a pun? Sorry.)

Clearly it's not DDL (or whatever that was) because i don't have to keep the image file handy. (well, i do jic but only because of the bugs thing)

DDL, lets see, I used to know what that was. I am out of touch with the Microsoft-isms. Something like Dynamic Data Linking ( I am guessing). jlc? That a new one on me. I am sorry. I assumed everyone in this forum understood what OLE was, since it is and has been for some time, an OOo/LO option. I broke my own rule about defining acronyms before I use them, Sorry.

If i need to edit an image i never even try from inside the document. It's either back tot he original or latest version i can find or right-click the image and save it outside the document. It just feels wrong doing it inside the document but i might try it a few times from now on.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

OLE is just another tool. Use whatever fits one's hand.
Girvin Herr

Steve,
Hmmm. I have never tried that. In some instances, it may be a shortcut to the Insert drill-down.
Thanks.
Girvin Herr

Steve Edmonds wrote:

The reason for inserting graphics into our documents and providing a zipped file containing all of them was based upon a problem that existed recently. When someone reviewed a document, sometimes some of the graphics would disappear, sometimes most if not all would disappear. They would also disappear from the ODT file making it a much smaller file. So we began to save the graphics and zip them. Then when this happened, the reviewer could re-insert the graphics.
      Very possible this was a bug, but it did not happen consistently. So, filing a bug report would do not good as it could not be duplicated. Perhaps, this bug was removed as it has not happened recently. But it is always better to be safe than to have to re-create all the graphics.
      This has been more of a practice or suggestion than a rule.

--Dan

Hi :slight_smile:
Hmmm, it sounds like i really did get muddled up then.  Thanks for setting me straight :slight_smile:

Btw
jic = just in case
lqtm = laughs quietly to myself
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi
I see there has been a lot of discussion on this subject in the list.
May I point out that Drawing objects ought not to be inserted in the guides. If you refer to Chapter 2, Producing LO User Guides which is available in the Resources for Contributors folder on ODF Authors (no log-in required), in the section 'Flowcharts and other diagrams' section on page 16, it requires you to convert them to PNG before inserting them.

Regards
JohnS

John,
It certainly does say that , doesn't it. I forgot that item - so much to read.
Thanks.
Girvin Herr

John Smith wrote:

Dan,
I am very Pavlovian myself. If it hurts, I don't do it again.
John Smith's message pointing out that the Contributor's Guide specifies to insert only PNG images, keeping separate image files, closes the book on this issue. If I had remembered that section, I would never had posted my original question. Call it the learning curve.
Thanks.
Girvin Herr

Dan Lewis wrote:

Hi :slight_smile:
The right answer did turn up eventually.

Revisiting an area and briefly exploring alternatives doesn't seem particularly bad to me.  Sorry if that was just a waste f time for everyone.
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

I noticed that the outline lists with level-1 numbered list items and second-level unordered list items employed List paragraph list styles meant for formatting level-one list items used for level-two list items (OOoList 1 Start/Cont./End styles in level 2). The lists look OK, though.

Gary