feedback from a user Re: [libreoffice-users] Moving pop up help box position when using menus

Hi :slight_smile:
Just got some feedback from the Users List that i thought i should forwards to this list in case it's useful :slight_smile:
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi all,

Hi :slight_smile: Just got some feedback from the Users List that i thought i
should forwards to this list in case it's useful :slight_smile: Regards from Tom
:slight_smile:

Just to let you know about the help files, a FR group has updated the
Help Authoring tool and will soon begin to work on the content to
complete and update it.
When we will be ready (there is some learning before beginning) we will
let you know, I think it will be really good to work together on this.
The local help is used a lot by our user base (at least in our
community) and we would like to offer them the same quality it has some
times ago.

Kind regards
Sophie

Hi :slight_smile:
Please do let us know when the improved Help Authoring system is ready.  I was somewhat shocked to find that all the translation teams have been doing so much work to translate the horribly out-dated in-built help. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom, all,

Hi :slight_smile: Please do let us know when the improved Help Authoring system
is ready.

The extension has been adapted to LO4.0, so it's ready to use. I've
retrieved the template and found an old documentation for the Authoring
tool (that needs to be adapted). I'm writing an how-to in French
currently. But if anybody wants to jump him now, I'll be pleased to
explain how to install the extension, the template, retrieve the
sources, etc.

I was somewhat shocked to find that all the translation

teams have been doing so much work to translate the horribly
out-dated in-built help. Regards from Tom :slight_smile:

Even out-dated, it can be of help and some of us (localizers) have begun
several years ago. It can help our users to understand most of the icons
and menus entries in the software, they can not be trained through it,
but understand what it does (what a online help is done for :wink:

Kind regards
Sophie

Hi :slight_smile:
If it's possible to edit the in-built help files without wading through Xml then it would be great to hear about even in French.  I suspect i might be able to make sense of it even just with Google-translate.  Is there a link to a how-to already or does it need a lot of work?  Is it something that we might be able to work out together somehow?  Is the how-to going to be a wiki-page or a video?  Wiki sounds better to me but video might turn out to be easier?

Regards from

Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom, all

Hi :slight_smile: If it's possible to edit the in-built help files without wading
through Xml then it would be great to hear about even in French.

Unfortunately no. There is a tool that was used by Sun to edit the .xhp
files through Writer, but you can't escape the xml code and the
complicated structure of the help.
  I

suspect i might be able to make sense of it even just with
Google-translate.

The principal documentation is in English, but it's from 2005. Since,
the help files have evolved, the tool has evolved, the tags have also
evolved, this is all this adaptation that is needed.

Is there a link to a how-to already or does it

need a lot of work?

It needs a lot of learning :slight_smile:

Is it something that we might be able to work

out together somehow?

Of course, but it's far from simple, and there is a need to learn.

Is the how-to going to be a wiki-page or a

video? Wiki sounds better to me but video might turn out to be
easier?

Imagine that you have to learn a new language, what would be the best :wink:
All the files are on my server and can be reach easily by the one who
wants to participate (I can provide the link in private, my server is
not a robust one). Before making all the files public, I would like to
make sure that all work correctly.
But as I said, I'm willing to help anybody who would like to participate
in the meantime.

Kind regards
Sophie

Sophie, I am very interested in participating, but I won't have any
time until after 15 March when I return to Australia.

--Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
Should we be making an effort to inform the translators teams that the Guides are more important to translate than the in-built help?

While the in-built help is very handy and easy to access it's surely a problem that it's now nearly a decade out of date.  I'm sure a few features have changed or been added in that time!!  Doesn't the in-built help now mislead people into trying things the wrong way around.

Generally on the Users List we have had quite a few people make fairly serious complaints about the in-built help but all of them have been turned around and made really happy by pointing them to the full guides.  Even people that grumbled about it being awkward to look-up info compared to using an in-built help system.

In the longer-term perhaps some current translators might be able to help this team update the in-built help?  Translators might know the process of how to update but may not have the skills with English.  This team could help with the content.

In the shorter-term it might be easier to recruit more people into the translations teams if they are able to avoid Xml and focus on simply using simpler tools such as using LO itself on reasonably large documents.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom, all,

Hi :slight_smile: Should we be making an effort to inform the translators teams
that the Guides are more important to translate than the in-built
help?

This is two different things. Also, in some countries, you can't deliver
a product without these help files.
Another thing, translation is not the same as localization. When you
translate the guides, you have all the context, it's a linear
translation. When you localize the help files or the product, you only
have strings, not related to each other because picked from different
files, without other context than the name of the file and your experience.

While the in-built help is very handy and easy to access it's surely
a problem that it's now nearly a decade out of date. I'm sure a few
features have changed or been added in that time!! Doesn't the
in-built help now mislead people into trying things the wrong way
around.

It's not a decade out of date, not that much :slight_smile: Some strings in the
dialog box that has been added are not commented, some dialogs (like on
Writer > Format > Title page) has no description associated, etc.
Collecting the part removed and added could be a first step.

Generally on the Users List we have had quite a few people make
fairly serious complaints about the in-built help but all of them
have been turned around and made really happy by pointing them to the
full guides. Even people that grumbled about it being awkward to
look-up info compared to using an in-built help system.

As said, the help doesn't explain how to use a feature, it describes it
and gives the purpose of the function. Some parts are more detailed, but
it's not the primary aim of a help file. The guides and the help are
complementary.

In the longer-term perhaps some current translators might be able to
help this team update the in-built help? Translators might know the
process of how to update but may not have the skills with English.
This team could help with the content.

In the future, the en_US help files will be ported for modification on
the wiki. That will really simplify the process to maintain it. But it's
in the future. For now, we need people able to deal with the files,
people able to understand a functionality before it's implemented,
people able to proof read and test.

In the shorter-term it might be easier to recruit more people into
the translations teams if they are able to avoid Xml and focus on
simply using simpler tools such as using LO itself on reasonably
large documents.

Currently, it's not possible to avoid xml, the files are in .xhp forms,
so you have to deal with them.
As an example, I copy a part of the file commenting the numbering icon

Quick question (I hope it's not too off-topic): Why must we download the
help files separately if they are out of date and the online help is
better? The download page seems to imply that you must download and install
them, after you have installed the main file.

Slightly more on-topic:

I'm not too well-versed in XML (I assume it's just like HTML but with
support custom tags) but wouldn't mind helping update them from their
10-year-old version we have to download with every release.