Getting Started Guide Version LO 4.0

Very likely, there is no difference between the two of them. One way to test this is to select "Tango" and take several screen shots of the icons. Then select "Automatic (Tango)" and do the same thing. Then compare the screen shots.
      I have version 4.0.0.1 for 32 bit and 64 bit Debian. (I use Ubuntu.) There are some differences from what have been mentioned: Automatic is associated with Oxygen as in "Automatic (Oxygen)". Galaxy is still the Default selection. And yes, there is a separate "Oxygen" choice which contains the same icons for the Standard toolbar as "Automatic (Oxygen)". I checked.
      The 4.0.0.1 version for the Mac has "Automatic (Tango)", "Galaxy (Default)", and "Tango" (plus a few others). So there are some differences in what icon sets are available by OS. I don't have access to the RPM version.

--Dan

Very likely, there is no difference between the two of them. One way to test this is to select "Tango" and take several screen shots of the icons. Then select "Automatic (Tango)" and do the same thing. Then compare the screen shots.
     I have version 4.0.0.1 for 32 bit and 64 bit Debian. (I use Ubuntu.) There are some differences from what have been mentioned: Automatic is associated with Oxygen as in "Automatic (Oxygen)". Galaxy is still the Default selection. And yes, there is a separate "Oxygen" choice which contains the same icons for the Standard toolbar as "Automatic (Oxygen)". I checked.

Apparently on my Windows 7 4.0.0.1 version, before I made any changes, the Automatic (Tango) listitem was listed on the Options - LibreOffice- VIew dialog box as the icon-theme option and was assumed to be the "first" real, actual default. One way to check that, though, was to press Revert. And then after I did that, Galaxy (default) became listed--and was assumed to be the new (factory?) default at that point.

So, my next question is: If Automatic (Tango) is listed as the icon style after a installation (before any mod options were made), what icon theme is the "first" default--the listed Automatic (Tango) or the unlisted Galaxy (default)?

Gary

Hi :slight_smile:
It is good to hear the differences (if any) are not very noticeable.  I think that's the only bit that is of crucial interest to the Docs Team except perhaps in one of the guides if there is a paragraph about icon sets.  Even there it probably doesn't matter much unless the different sets are listed, described and images shown of them.  It's interesting to hear about especially now that the UI focus is moving to over-all theming through "personas".  So, it's good to hear that the screen-shots are likely to be very consistent if using potentially different versions of the same icon sets. 
Thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello Jean

The Galaxy icon set does look better and the pictograms used do follow other icon sets fairly closely. Best example is for Bold, Italic and Underline - nearly the same as MS Office - and have been used for a very long time. Even Apple programs uses B, I and U.

However, we have to think of the users. The default set when you install LO is the Tango icon set. Also, most Linux distributions that include LO use the Tango set, Ubuntu is the best example I can think of. The majority of users will probably NOT change the icon for LO to Galaxy, so it would be better to continue with Tango so the user guides match the default LO installation. This would make it easier for users, even if there is a dislike for Tango amongst the LO docs team.

Another solution to think about. Is it possible to get the default LO installation to automatically use the Galaxy icon set? It would also mean getting the Linux distributions who include LO to use the Galaxy set.

Regards

PeterS

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

Tom,
I think you may have misunderstood what Gary and Dan have said.

In fact, the differences between the Galaxy and Tango icon sets are
considerable.

We are certainly NOT going to attempt to cover all of the icon sets.

--Jean

Hello Jean and Tom

There is mention in the Preface now that what you see in a user guide may not match what a user sees on their display.

Regards

PeterS

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

Hi :slight_smile:
Good points but i think these were made in the original discussion.  The decision to use Galaxy was due to it being clearer when printed, (a side issue was that it was the only other one available on all platforms at the time (i think))

Tango might look nice on-screen but if it looks horrible in print or is too murky so see what's going on (bearing in mind that not all readers have good eyesight) then that is even more reason to use Galaxy in print.  Similarly the other way around.  I'm not sure if i would like Galaxy as the default on-screen but it looks great in the guides.

There is a 3rd option and probably others too 
3.  Just leave it to the disclaimer to explain why the icons look different and perhaps signpost people to how to change sets for themselves and a place to find new sets. 
4.  In the disclaimer print 1 copy of the Tango set and 1 of the Galaxy set so that people can refer back to it if they have problem with a screen-shot

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :) 
Sorry i knew i was unclear when i typed it.  I meant the difference between
"Tango" and
"Automatic (Tango)"
seem to be slight or unnoticeable and similarly so for other sets.

Good to hear that the icon sets are not covered in print!  Hopefully the full range of sets is constantly evolving and ever-increasing.  Hopefully even the Design Teams wiki can't keep up with the interesting new things being developed by people.

I thought the guides had always had a disclaimer about the likelihood of there being visual differences due to theming and icon sets.  I guess our target market until now would have probably thought that quite obvious and easy to understand, especially after seeing a couple of the screen-shots.  Now that we have probably reached around saturation point in Gnu&LInux markets and probably getting almost all growth from recent ex-Windows or current Windows users it's smart to be a bit more obvious.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

There is a 3rd option and probably others too
3. Just leave it to the disclaimer to explain why the icons look different
and perhaps signpost people to how to change sets for themselves and a place
to find new sets.

That's what it says now in the Prefaces that have been revised. (All
will be revised for v4.)

4. In the disclaimer print 1 copy of the Tango set and 1 of the Galaxy set
so that people can refer back to it if they have problem with a screen-shot

Tom, that would be a LOT of icons. Pages and pages of them. Not
practical at all.

--Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
Time for a break or some sleep or both.  There is no need to deliberately be obtuse.  For 4) why the full range of icons?  Why not just the ones in the
default toolbar?  or even just a section of the tool-bar.  Then the same area of the tool-bar in Galaxy.  The aim of 4
is to give people a general impression of the types of differences.  Why would it have to be every single icon that no-one ever sees?

Sticking with 3) makes the most sense but why not think about finding some middle ground that everyone could be happy with? 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:
Sorry!  Many apologies for my last post!

I hadn't realised i was in such a bad mood.  When i re-read the email but in a different voice i realised that i had probably mis-read they way it was intended.

I didn't get much sleep and had just read another of e-letters typical posts on the Users List.  I guess part of the reason he annoys me soo much is that i partly agree with him but realise that it's unrealistic and that there is a 3rd option.  Things are just never quite as black&white as people often think.  I know people say there are many shades of grey too but that's often used to hint at things of a dubious nature hiding in the shadows.  People rarely think of the infinite variety of colours.

Anyway, i probably over-reacted to him/her too and definitely over-reacted to Jean's post so many apologies for that
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello

A draft version 4.0 of the Getting Started Preface (Chap 00) has been placed
in the Drafts 4.0 folder on the ODF Authors website.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/gs-chap-00-preface/view

Please review and comment.

Regards

PeterS

Hi Peter
I've had a look as I'm also doing the Writer preface. I've commented on all the suggested changes I've made. These are mostly to bring it into line with what I've done in Writer. Do let me know if they're ok, as I'll alter Writer if things are sufficiently different.

JohnS

Hello

New version of the Preface (Chap 00) for the Getting Started Guide after
JohnS comments has been placed in the Drafts 4.0 folder on the ODF Authors
website.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/gs-chap-00-preface/view

I think it is now ready for publishing unless someone else has comments.

Regards

PeterS

Hello JohnS

I have edited the Preface chapter and agreed with your comments.

The print dialogues do not appear in the Windows version, they are only Linux and Mac OSX only. I have changed the text to show this.

Regards

PeterS

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

Hello JohnS again

Suggest you add your initials to the filename when you make changes. That way we do not lose versions and can correct errors easier.

Regards

PeterS

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

Hello

Draft version of Chapter 6 Getting Started with Impress is now in the LO 4.0
Drafts folder on the ODF Authors website.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/gs-chap-6-getting-started-with-impress/view

Ready for review and comment.

PeterS

Hello

Chapter 13 Getting Started with Macros is the the Drafts LO4.0 folder on the
ODF Authors website.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/gs-chap-13-getting-started-with-macros/view

Ready for review and comment.

Regards

PeterS

Hello

A draft of Chapter 12 Creating Web Pages version 4.0 is now in the Drafts
LO4.0 folder on the ODF Authors website ready for review and comment.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/gs-chap-12-creating-web-pages/view

Regards

PeterS

Hello

Draft version 4.0 of Appendix B is now in the Drafts LO4.0 folder on the ODF
Authors website.

Spelling corrections and minor tweaks only to make it more generic for
future versions of LO.

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.0/appendix-b-open-source-open-standards-opendocument/view

Regards

PeterS