Revised template for user guides

Earlier this year we discussed the need for cleaning up our user guide
template. I have (probably incomplete) notes on what needs to be done. Is
someone working on this already? If not, I'll get started on it.

Jean

Hi Jean,

Earlier this year we discussed the need for cleaning up our user guide
template. I have (probably incomplete) notes on what needs to be done. Is
someone working on this already? If not, I'll get started on it.

I had started mapping the documentation styles, see my message in the thread "Documentation Template", Tue May 08 10:35:18 2012

Thanks. I recalled the conversation but could not find it. When do you think you might have this completed? --Jean

Well... I had no time to look into that more than what is in the files. I'll do my best to add more information. I guess this doesn't precludes a discussion, anyway.
Second, I can't seem to connect using the credentials you had sent me at that time... doh... do I feel stupid...

Hello Jean

I have just picked up my email and would like to make a comment about
templates.

Is it possible to simplify the number of styles used in the template. For
example, the list style has three styles - start; cont; end. It would be
much better to have only two styles - List1 or Number1 for a normal list
and List2 and Number2 for a sub-list that is indented to start at the text
for List1 or Number1.

Enjoying my holiday. Plenty of sun, swimming and beer.

Regards

PeterS

Peter,
That particular item is at the top of my "hit list" for a new
template. Glad you agree!

Also glad to hear you are enjoying your holiday. Sounds like a good combination.

--Jean

The primary purpose for the Start, Cont., and End paragraph styles associated with the individual List n or Number n paragraph styles is to add some extra vertical space after the very last list entry, regardless of its level (of nesting). IOW, the formatting goal is to have only one such "End" entry in a multilevel list (with the extra space), and that "End" style is assigned to the very last list item, which could be at any nesting level, depending upon whatever it was that the author wrote.

One manner of eliminating those Start, Cont., and End styles for the individual list nesting levels would be to define the overall list differently--as a block that applies the extra vertical space automatically at the end of the "''blocked" list (before the next style following the list).

Gary

That's all very print oriented formatting, which does not necessarily translate nicely, if at all, into other formats. Seems to me like an unnecessary level of detail.

Jean

BTW, a simple cheap-and-dirty way to eliminate all those Start, Cont., and End styles would be to just add a blank paragraph lline at the very end of the list.

And again, there is always the conditional-text option for doing that and other things (such as the Tip/Caution/Note "tables"), where the conditions are designed for the desired output porting: print document, ePub, XHTML, etc. Authoring or editing with conditional text is better than employing a compromised one-size-fits-all mentality, and it has been around for eons already and is not difficult to learn and master. Obviously, LibreOffice has developed that additional useful functionality for a reason...

Gary

Then, Gary, why do the Start and Cont. styles have the same values in the Indent & Spaces tab? Both styles aren't needed even now.
      But perhaps a more important point: use of a numbered list in a table. A single number and a single bullet list seems to be sufficient.
      While we are at it, do we really need to have three numbered lists: decimal (1,2,3), lower-alpha (a,b,c)), and lower-roman (i,ii,iii)? Since these are used for level 1, level 2, and level 3 respectively, seems like this could be done with one style by modifying the Options tab. With the number of lists that I use in my writing, deciding which style to use at a given point and at what level can become very confusing. This seems like an unnecessary complexion.

--Dan

Hello Jean

I have just picked up my email and would like to make a comment about
templates.

Is it possible to simplify the number of styles used in the template. For
example, the list style has three styles - start; cont; end. It would be
much better to have only two styles - List1 or Number1 for a normal list
and List2 and Number2 for a sub-list that is indented to start at the text
for List1 or Number1.

Enjoying my holiday. Plenty of sun, swimming and beer.

Regards

PeterS

The primary purpose for the Start, Cont., and End paragraph styles associated with the individual List n or Number n paragraph styles is to add some extra vertical space after the very last list entry, regardless of its level (of nesting). IOW, the formatting goal is to have only one such "End" entry in a multilevel list (with the extra space), and that "End" style is assigned to the very last list item, which could be at any nesting level, depending upon whatever it was that the author wrote.

One manner of eliminating those Start, Cont., and End styles for the individual list nesting levels would be to define the overall list differently--as a block that applies the extra vertical space automatically at the end of the "''blocked" list (before the next style following the list).

Gary

     Then, Gary, why do the Start and Cont. styles have the same values in the Indent & Spaces tab? Both styles aren't needed even now.

AFAIK, when used within a list, the indentation and tab settings of the Start, Cont., and End paragraph styles are inactive and those formatting functions are set via the tab and indentation fields of the list (not paragraph...) styles that were employed for the list.

I believe that there are no differences between the Start and Cont. styles. The End styles are employed to provide some vertical spacing before the next item (following the last item in list)--explicitly set via its (paragraph) style definition. Only one End style for the entire list is employed (select the one for the appropriate level)--unless someone wanted such vertical spacing inserted between interior list items, for some odd reason or another.

Perhaps, a list could be set up as a block in a template revision so that the appropriate vertical space could be automatically inserted after the entire block--thereby not using any individual End styles or a "blank" paragraph.

     But perhaps a more important point: use of a numbered list in a table. A single number and a single bullet list seems to be sufficient.

There is no good substitute for clear, effective writing and employing editing oversight or rewriting whenever necessary. Cluttered, esoteric content in tables should be avoided.

     While we are at it, do we really need to have three numbered lists: decimal (1,2,3), lower-alpha (a,b,c)), and lower-roman (i,ii,iii)? Since these are used for level 1, level 2, and level 3 respectively, seems like this could be done with one style by modifying the Options tab. With the number of lists that I use in my writing, deciding which style to use at a given point and at what level can become very confusing. This seems like an unnecessary complexion.

--Dan

Yes, those are not really necessary, but having extra styles in the style catalog does no harm--just don't use them, if you choose. Those special numbered list styles you mentioned were not of my creation, which were introduced by one or more other OOoAuthors template designers a few years ago.

(I chose not to mettle on that account--so as not to stifle creativity from volunteers, especially when they are so few and far between.) Back during the formative OOo version 1.x and early version 2.x years prior to 2006, OOoAuthors was not employing styles for their lists at all and instead employed manual overrides (aka, direct formatting in the non OOo/LO universe) for all their ordered and unordered (bullet) lists back then.

Gary

Hello Gary

Another way is to slightly lessen the spacing above and below list items. For example body text at 12 point above and below then reduce all list items down to 11 or 10 point. This does make a list easy to spot on a page.

Regards

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com