[Typo] a weird sentence in ch1, writer guide.

Documentation General
#8

Well, don't get me wrong, please. I don't want to make any argue about
english grammar. and I don't have any capability for that.
It's simple. If someone says, there's no problem, then no problems.
And if there's something unclear, you guys could discuss about that. I
wish I could join in, though.

To be honest, I don't know the difference between "a" and "the" well.
Though I know the basic concept of course.
When I read the sentence, I thought the sentence might be not clear
and a writer might have made a small mistake. So I just asked you in
this mailing list to check that sentence again just in case.

#9

Hi :slight_smile:
It's good to ask and i think it usually leads to better understanding and better documentation.  It can be frustrating and we don't have a lot of time to discuss each sentence of all the books in depth so you might have to "make a judgement call" and adapt what is written to "fit cultural differences" better.  On the other hand some people enjoy discussing this sort of detail and find it interesting.

a = one  of a number of identical (or perhaps just very similar) items/people/events/ideas

the = there's only one that is relevant

I thought the paragraph got a bit muddled in it's use of a&the but usually readers just skim over oddities like that.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#10

How true...

While we are at it... (being picky, picky as a copyeditor): The "it's" in your last sentence should have been "its"--a common grammar error.

Pro bono grammar lesson: Possessive pronouns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessive_pronoun ) and possessive adjectives ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possessive_adjective#.22Possessive_adjectives.22_in_English ), such as its, do not use apostrophes--unlike contractions.

Gary

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
Nice one! :)  Yes, i do a whole load of weird and wrong things in emails.  I think that particular mistake is one i make often. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Hello Gary and Tom

Many people make the mistake about its and it's, even the English.

I have found over the years that it is always best to avoid the apostrophe
when writing. This makes it better when someone has to translate English
into another language.

For example:

It's - always write as "it is"
Can't - always write as "cannot" (please note "cannot" is one word and
should not be written as "can not" - a quirk of the English language).
Don't - always write as "do not".

I think you get my drift. Using word contractions is part of conversation
and should never be written. That is how I was taught English language by my
Scottish English teacher many years ago in Yorkshire. You have to remember,
folk from Yorkshire are famous for missing t'odd word.

Regards

Peter

#13

Hi :slight_smile:
I think that's a valid point but sadly it is unlikely to happen.

Contractions happen as part of a language's evolution.  Note that Commander Data in Star Trek, Next Generation (TNG) is considered over formal and often laments his inability to use contractions as it makes him seem "less human".

Also there is a subtle difference between it's and "it is" as it changes the emphasis of the sentence.  With "it is" there is more weight on the "is" as it make the "is" more definite
it is
can replace
it's definitely
or a better example is
"Oh yes, it is" rather than "Oh yes, it's".  The 2nd one of those is unlikely to make much sense.

I think the confusion arises because often when something possesses something, for example
Tim's bike
the 's is used to show which noun owns what but the 's in "it's" never means that.  If a noun appears to be plural then the ' would appear after the word
A Copenhagen hospital's computers are being switched to LibreOffice
All Copenhagen hospitals' computers are being switched over to LibreOffice
Again that doesn't happen with "its".  So it feels like there should be an ' but it is incorrect to have one. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#14

Committing a grammatical mistake within a grammar discussion always (de)merits a "gotcha."

I know, "demerit" is not really a verb...

Gary

#15

Peter

Hello Gary and Tom

Many people make the mistake about its and it's, even the English.

I have found over the years that it is always best to avoid the apostrophe
when writing. This makes it better when someone has to translate English
into another language.

For example:

It's - always write as "it is"
Can't - always write as "cannot" (please note "cannot" is one word and
should not be written as "can not" - a quirk of the English language).
Don't - always write as "do not".

This alleged native speaker of US English cannot remember the correct contractions to use them.

#16

Hello Jay and Tom

The USA and UK are two countries separated by one language - English -
and the ne'er the twain shall meet ;-())))

Avoiding the use of the apostrophe is one thing we should consider. It does help users whose mother tongue is not English because the grammar rules for the apostrophe are difficult to understand with the possessive apostrophe being the hardest. Comes from personal experience of working in several non-English countries. Also, if you work in the aviation industry and use Simplified English, the apostrophe is definitely out.

I always enjoy discussions like this as it is a break from the serious stuff.

Regards

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

#17

I think our style guide says to not use contractions in documentation. If not, it should, and I will amend it.

Email to the list is a different matter, and I find that AutoCorrect causes many an apostrophe error in my emails when I'm in a hurry and don't reread carefully before sending.

Jean

#18

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
Ok, i agree about documentation avoiding contractions
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#19

Hello Jay and Tom

The USA and UK are two countries separated by one language - English -
and the ne'er the twain shall meet ;-())))

Avoiding the use of the apostrophe is one thing we should consider. It does help users whose mother tongue is not English because the grammar rules for the apostrophe are difficult to understand with the possessive apostrophe being the hardest. Comes from personal experience of working in several non-English countries. Also, if you work in the aviation industry and use Simplified English, the apostrophe is definitely out.

Out of curiosity, just why is the apostrophe banned from the aviation industry? Is its use a real risk to safety?

I have held an FAA Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) Mechanic's certificate since the 1980s and have been a licensed pilot since 1971 and was unaware of any aviation dangers attributed to apostrophes--up to now.

Gary

#20

Hello Jay and Tom

The USA and UK are two countries separated by one language - English -
and the ne'er the twain shall meet ;-())))

Avoiding the use of the apostrophe is one thing we should consider. It does help users whose mother tongue is not English because the grammar rules for the apostrophe are difficult to understand with the possessive apostrophe being the hardest. Comes from personal experience of working in several non-English countries. Also, if you work in the aviation industry and use Simplified English, the apostrophe is definitely out.

I think the native English speakers should remember to avoid contractions and other be more precise about possessives.

Also, it does not help that there are two major spelling systems in English, fortunately the differences are generally very consistent (*our vs *or or *er vs *re in word endings).

Another problem is that UK, Canadian, US, etc. local idioms are sometimes incomprehensible to other. And some words are have some what different meanings in US English than UK English. (the boot of a car (UK) is the trunk of a car (US)) Wikipedia has several lists of these differences and some can be very humorous.

#21

Gary

Hello Jay and Tom

The USA and UK are two countries separated by one language - English -
and the ne'er the twain shall meet ;-())))

Avoiding the use of the apostrophe is one thing we should consider. It does help users whose mother tongue is not English because the grammar rules for the apostrophe are difficult to understand with the possessive apostrophe being the hardest. Comes from personal experience of working in several non-English countries. Also, if you work in the aviation industry and use Simplified English, the apostrophe is definitely out.

Out of curiosity, just why is the apostrophe banned from the aviation industry? Is its use a real risk to safety?

I have held an FAA Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) Mechanic's certificate since the 1980s and have been a licensed pilot since 1971 and was unaware of any aviation dangers attributed to apostrophes--up to now.

Gary

My guess is that non-native speakers more easily could misunderstand the contraction particularly when quickly scanning a document. The only contraction I can think of is you're for you are vs your.

An very common adage in safety is to make the instructions very clear and precise and avoid any wording/phrasing/contractions/etc that could cause confusion. This is especially important when there is a problem and quick/accurate comprehension is critical.

#22

Gary

Hello Jay and Tom

The USA and UK are two countries separated by one language - English -
and the ne'er the twain shall meet ;-())))

Avoiding the use of the apostrophe is one thing we should consider. It does help users whose mother tongue is not English because the grammar rules for the apostrophe are difficult to understand with the possessive apostrophe being the hardest. Comes from personal experience of working in several non-English countries. Also, if you work in the aviation industry and use Simplified English, the apostrophe is definitely out.

Out of curiosity, just why is the apostrophe banned from the aviation industry? Is its use a real risk to safety?

I have held an FAA Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) Mechanic's certificate since the 1980s and have been a licensed pilot since 1971 and was unaware of any aviation dangers attributed to apostrophes--up to now.

Gary

My guess is that non-native speakers more easily could misunderstand the contraction particularly when quickly scanning a document. The only contraction I can think of is you're for you are vs your.

One typical classic is: they're, their, and there. In another sense, there is: chord, cored, and cord.

Gary

#23

Hi :slight_smile:
Here, there and where all have "here" as part of the word. 
Makes it easier to remember.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#24

In US English, the three words Mary, marry, and merry all sound alike in the Great American dialect--the major of the four main US dialects, used by broadcasters and in most of the US. But in the US Northeast, those three words are each pronounced distinctly differently.

Gary

#25

Very verbose, but what purpose does this thread serve? And if we
have so much time to write all of this, why are we not using this time
to write more documentation?
     Base among other guides could use some help right about now.
     You do not know very much about Base specifically, or databases in
general? Do I have a college course for you! Stanford University (of of
the top engineering schools in the USA) has 4 free online courses in
computer science. One of these is Introducing databases.
     These courses are licensed under the Creative Commons
Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. Is this
materials usable in the Base Guides? Seems the only problem is that it
could not be put in a soft or hard copy book. Sales would likely be
prohibited as well.
     Any further discussion of any thing past the first paragraph should
be copied onto the top of a new email with its own new Subject.
     Yes, I have "hijacked" this thread in a sense, but I am a little
upset about the waste of time put into this thread in the past. I do not
apologize.

--Dan

#26

Hello Gary

In Simplified English (not simple English), used in the aviation industry, there are rules to follow and one of them is use of the apostrophe. So contractions or possessive apostrophes. You have to recompose your writing to get around using apostrophes.

The idea of Simplified English is to help non-English speakers using aviation manuals, which have to be written initially in American English according to ATA rules. If an aviation manual is then going to be translated it becomes easier to translate.

Also you have a specific dictionary for all the technical words that have to be used because in English you can have several words for the same item. A good example is empennage, which has to be used and for those who do not know what it means - it is the tail section of the aircraft body.

Simplified English is used by Airbus where I spent nearly four happy years in Hamburg.

Regards

Peter Schofield
psauthor@gmail.com

#27

Roger that.

Gary

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