Getting Started with Base

I have just uploaded this new version by Dan into the feedback folder. I am not too happy with it in its present form. It is well written and clearly explained, but I think it goes into too much depth for a GS chapter. It is also very long and will be even longer if we incorporate the additional section that Dan sent to me (I have not looked at this at all yet).

Someone who looks at a Getting Started guide is basically asking: "Can I use this program?". And that has two aspects: does it do something that I would find useful, and can I understand it enough to use it? After reading Dan's work, I am inclined to answer yes to the first and no to the second! And I know something about databases, having worked as an information scientist.

I have therefore indicated two sections which I think ought to be transferred into the Base Guide proper.

A big problem with Base is that you need to have a working database before you can do many of the things described in a user guide of any sort. And databases are not easy to design and create. I suggest tentatively that the input/output sections of the Base guide might refer back to the creation of this useful database in the Getting Started Guide. The user could then read up on how to create the database, before trying the more complex form and report design tasks that properly belong in the main guide.

Hi :slight_smile:
I used to think that Base might need 2 "Getting Started" guides. 
1.  for people just doing data-entry and normal user perhaps with routine maintenance 
2.  for designers building a database and front-end and for advanced maintenance.

Writing for 1 would be a nightmare due to the huge variety that is possible when building a database with Base as the front-end.  I don't think we can really do even a basic generic enough guide until after the one for 2 is done.

Hazel are you saying my 2 would really need to be split into two too?  If only 2 sections need to be moved out of the GS Chapter then would that chapter still make sense?  Wouldn't it remove something crucial?  The GS Guide is just meant to be an appetiser rather than go into tons of detail.  Chances are that most users will only use Base through using mail-merge and stuff like that so we really need to keep it as simple as possible.  If the chapter still makes sense then moving those sections to the full guide for Base would be great imo too.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

What I have been thinking about for some time but never really got
a round to doing:
1. Getting Started with Base chapter containing a flat database created
by the Wizards with the basics of what to do.
2. Base Guide: (first four chapters that is)
   a. Introduction to Base: creating a relational database with the
basics of what to do.
   b. Planning/Designing databases: what is needed when planning a
database and how to
       turn the plan into the database's design. Contains examples of a
flat database and a
       more complex relational database. (Thorough explanation of the
principles.)
   c. Data Input and Removal: thorough explanation of the principles of
the tables and
       forms including use of SQL in creating, modifying, and deleting
tables.
   d. Data Output: thorough explanation of the principles of queries,
views, and reports.

--Dan

Hi :slight_smile:
I like that plan :)  I think splitting the guide would be easier after this incarnation of it is completed.  I think we need something solid and "out there" (released and published on Lulu) before we can really make sense of exactly what does and what doesn't work well in those sorts of splits.  I guess that since this one is looking like being the advanced one then a slimmer one for a flat database might be easier for someone afterwards?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Seems like I forgot to upload some files. I had already uploaded
the database files for GS with Base, Introducing Base, and the one for
chapters 2-4. I forgot about doing the same for LO. So, I have remedied
this. All three databases are uploaded into their proper LO draft
folders.
     Your input is very helpful. Thanks!

--Dan

Perhaps, but I'm thinking that Base like the other guides will
have people using only parts of the guide. Some will use the simple, and
others with use the complex. So, I wonder about splitting Base or any of
the other guides. Who knows, someone beginning with the simple might
decide to try something more complex. Would they do so if it was not in
the guide they had? And what about maintenance of the guides? That seems
to be adding extra work. I suppose I like the idea of having the guide
go from the simpler to the more complex using one outline. This seems to
be simpler than using two outlines when writing: the simple, and the
advanced. Just some of my thoughts.

--Dan

Spliting guides woule be DESASTROUS ... imagine someone trying to get help
on a guide having to find the info they need on ANOTHER guide ... sorry
this will not work, it is easier to have a step by step aproach and let
those who need it jump to the sections they want.

GS with BASE whould IMHO be related to the simple task of making a adress
book (see BASE TUTORIAL by Mariano Casanova)

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/0/02/Base_tutorial.pdf

At least this is what we plan on translating next for BASE in Brazil

Rogerio

Spliting guides woule be DESASTROUS ... imagine someone trying to get help
on a guide having to find the info they need on ANOTHER guide ... sorry
this will not work, it is easier to have a step by step aproach and let
those who need it jump to the sections they want.

GS with BASE whould IMHO be related to the simple task of making a adress
book (see BASE TUTORIAL by Mariano Casanova)

Yes, I think this would be the best approach if we were starting from scratch. Use one of the wizard's standard databases and show the creation of the table(s) and input form(s), a couple of simple queries and a simple report. Design from first principles would then be covered in the Base User Guide.

But we are not starting from scratch. Dan has put a lot of work into this and I'm sure he doesn't want to see it wasted. Also it is high time we got *something* out. It seems that Base has always lagged behind the other modules where documentation is concerned. So cutting down the existing GS guide and moving the deleted sections elsewhere would seem to be the best option. I am going to try and produce a cut-down version and see if it will work. If I succeed, I will put it into the drafts folder for review.

I would prefer to cut down Introducing Base and making it the
Gettting Started with Base chapter. It could be reduced to using only a
flat database with its single table created by the Tqble Wizard., a
form, one or more queries, and one or more reports.
     Presently, the Getting Started chapter uses a relational database
which is more involved than the flat database. That seems to make it a
better candidate for the first chapter of the Base Guide. Even then it
probably could use some cutting down as well.
     Hazel: the section that I sent you on copying a table from Calc
should really be a part of chapter 5. So, if you have not done anything
with this, don't.

--Dan

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:04:08 -0200

<SNIP>

Yes, I think this would be the best approach if we were starting from
scratch. Use one of the wizard's standard databases and show the
creation of the table(s) and input form(s), a couple of simple queries
and a simple report. Design from first principles would then be covered
in the Base User Guide.

But we are not starting from scratch. Dan has put a lot of work into
this and I'm sure he doesn't want to see it wasted. Also it is high
time we got *something* out. It seems that Base has always lagged
behind the other modules where documentation is concerned. So cutting
down the existing GS guide and moving the deleted sections elsewhere
would seem to be the best option. I am going to try and produce a
cut-down version and see if it will work. If I succeed, I will put it
into the drafts folder for review.

<SNIP>

Yes, that would be a good solution too. I have put a cut-down version of the existing GS chapter in the feedback folder along with the edited full-length version, just for people to look at. It does no harm to provide alternatives!

Good! I will begin working on cutting down the Introducing Base
chapter to day. That will give us both chapters as a beginning point.
     I will be looking at your work probably by midweek unless I finish
my chapter sometime today. (Tuesday is an "off day" for me.

--Dan

Hi :slight_smile:
Sounds like a plan :)  Good to see & good work from Dan and Hazel (and Rogerio) there.
Thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Base seems to be abandoned in the dev front also ... the bugs abound and
the work is meek. The last GOOD news I saw about this component was that
the drivers for "serious" DB like MySQL and PostgreSQL were being tuned to
work with 3.5 ... it IS a shame.

Rogerio

Progress report: I have the Introducing Base down to 38 pages now
excluding the Report section. It is 12.5 pages in length with many
screenshots. I will be looking at Helen's suggestions on the Report
section in the Getting Started with Base to get some hints as to how to
keep my Report section much less verbose. Tomorrow has to many other
things to do to work on this. Wednesday will be another day at this.

--Dan

Hi :slight_smile:
You remind me of Mark Twain’s famous quote — “I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:
Don't worry about the devs.  As documentation is improving more people are getting interested in Base.  Hopefully that might result in more devs getting interested/less-scared.

Cor, on the Users Lists, keeps berating me for saying there are not many devs working on Base.  I think Alex has said there seems to be a bottle-neck preventing new code and patches from getting accepted.  Again, hopefully the lead taken by the documentation team will go some way to increasing the amount of interest amongst more experienced, knowledgeable and/or skilled devs.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Additional update: I have cut down "Introducing Base" and rewrote
the Report section. It is located here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/base-guide/draft-lo3.4/introducing-base-1/view .
     I'm going to look at Helen's cut down of the Getting Started with
Base chapter.

--Dan

More progress: I went through Hazel's cut down version of the
Getting Started with Base Chapter. I have accepted most of the
suggestions. This chapter has gone from 1.8MB to 1.3. My cutting down of
the Introducing Base has taken it from 1.8MB to 1.1.
      I have decided that the GS chapter is not the place for the list
boxes. So that is my next project: move that to chapter 3, Data Input
and Removal, and replace a couple of screenshots.
     FYI, any SQL single or double quotes must be U+0027 and
U+0022, respectively. Base will not recognize anything else.
     Now I will end my day, and let others read this in the morning.

--Dan

Hi Tom,

I think Alex has said there seems to be a bottle-neck preventing new code and patches from getting accepted.

I don't recall ever having written any such thing. As far as I know,
there is no bottleneck for submission. The review process for code
submission is only limited by the number of people capable of reviewing
a patch for the database module and being able to sign off the change.

If there are only 2 volunteers regularly looking at, or working on Base
code, one can not expect things to move quickly.

Alex