Repeating Chapters

Hi :slight_smile:

Would it make sense for the Chapters on each specific app to be repeated as an
overview chapter in each of the guides dedicated to that app? The GS chapter on
"Getting Started with Writer" would be the same as the Writers Guide's
"Introducing Writer" and editing either in Alfresco would automatically update
the other.

There is extra info in the Writers Guide's Intro that is basically a brief
overview of LibreOffice generally. The info there is fairly much the same in
all the other guides so could it form a separate chapter, probably just 2
pages. Again, editing it in any guide would update the chapter in all guides.

We talked about this sort of thing briefly a few weeks ago in regards to the
Macros Chapter but i am still not certain about how feasable it is or even
whether it would be wise or not.

I think it would help each guide be a "stand alone" guide. At the moment to
understand the Calc chapter on "Macros" people have to get the Getting Started
Guide. It might help to consolidate the works and reduce the currently
duplicated workload for a few chapters. It might make it easier for ODFauthors,
NeoOffice and Apache to adapt your guides to their forks = which would make this
team their upstream leader :slight_smile:

Obviously there would be disadvantages too, such as issues about context,
perhaps making guides a little larger, confusion for new editors.

I just wondered what other people think about this sort of approach?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi :slight_smile:

Would it make sense for the Chapters on each specific app to be repeated as an
overview chapter in each of the guides dedicated to that app? The GS chapter on
"Getting Started with Writer" would be the same as the Writers Guide's
"Introducing Writer" and editing either in Alfresco would automatically update
the other.

The chapters in Getting Started are intended to serve a different purpose to the first chapter of each individual guide. They need to give a taste of the features in a component without going into too much detail, as well as an overview of specific features of the UI for that component and some details on some topics that most new users want or need to know.

It is possible to have the common part of the chapters be a file that is included in both, along with other info as appropriate. I have done some tests on this. It's fairly straightforward but can be confusing to uninitiated members of the group, and it doesn't work quite the way you may be envisioning.

I've been intending to write up the process, which would also serve well as a general how-to and also part of the power users guide. I have notes, so I'll try to move it up the priority list, at least to get a draft out so people can see what is involved.

There is extra info in the Writers Guide's Intro that is basically a brief
overview of LibreOffice generally. The info there is fairly much the same in
all the other guides so could it form a separate chapter, probably just 2
pages. Again, editing it in any guide would update the chapter in all guides.

This does not need to be a separate chapter, just a common file that is included in each chapter as mentioned above.

--Jean

I have thought about this some more and I have concluded this what I
described is not something to attempt to do for 3.4. It's going to take
time to plan and test so it works properly.

I don't have the time or energy to pursue this at this point, or even
explain all the pros and cons and complications that I can see; but if
someone else wants to work on it, feel free. Just remember that what
looks good (and relatively easy) to solve one perceived problem (by
creating chapters to be used in full, as is, in different books) may
cause other problems, some of which we may not discover until we try it.

So I recommend we plan for reuse, with a view to implementing it in a
later release. Meanwhile, we update the existing docs to 3.4.x. More
about that in a separate note.

--Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
I think the type of re-structuring i suggested wouldn't work.

If it made sense to repeat entire chapters then it might work but it would be
too complicated & confusing for odd paragraphs or pages scattered around the
place. Context is tough enough sometimes without worrying about whether the
paragraph also appears elsewhere.

It does still make sense for the Macro Chapter imo but that seems to be the only
one. Hmmm, it might also be good for the Mac's quick little table at the start
of all guides to show key combination equivalents of right-click and stuff.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Yes, definitely on the list for those chapters and books that don't
already have that info. Thanks for the reminder.

--Jean

Just remember that the newer Mac's do actually have a right-click and so does the Mac Magic mouse. The default is just set to the same one as the left. They just need to change the "secondary click" in System Preferences to right from left. Then it is almost the same as other systems with what it does.

Ian

Thanks, Ian! I didn't know that. The Mac I'm (occasionally) using isn't
new, and anyway I use a Microsoft mouse on it because switching mouse
types between the Windows, Linux, and Mac computers drives me nuts...
and the MS mouse gives me the right-click capability.

--Jean

Hi :slight_smile:
That's nice but i think it's a good idea to keep the note about right-click. It
might be good to expand on that little table if possible. Perhaps adding the
info about how to redefine the new right-click is worth adding to that note?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

It also works on the trackpad as well Jean.

Tom,

If you are going to update the table relating to Mac commands be aware that the Mac Books and some of the other Apple keyboards have fewer keys than other PC brands. They use the fn key with them. For example the "delete" key deletes from right to left-- the "fn + delete" from left to right. Some of the ones in the existing list give different results to what is shown.

I am in the process of trying to find time to create a bit better intro list (guide) for the Mac users. I may have got it done by the time the 3.5 documentation is being done.

--Ian

________________________________
From: Ian Leyton <leytonir@gmail.com>
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 22:18:46
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters

On 4/08/11 10:26 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :slight_smile:
That's nice but i think it's a good idea to keep the note about right-click.
It
might be good to expand on that little table if possible. Perhaps adding the
info about how to redefine the new right-click is worth adding to that note?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: Jean Hollis Weber<jeanweber@gmail.com>
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 11:59:18
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters

On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 19:54 +1000, Ian Leyton wrote:

On 4/08/11 6:37 PM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 09:05 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

... it might also be good for the Mac's quick little table at the start
of all guides to show key combination equivalents of right-click and stuff.

Yes, definitely on the list for those chapters and books that don't
already have that info. Thanks for the reminder.

--Jean

Just remember that the newer Mac's do actually have a right-click and so
does the Mac Magic mouse. The default is just set to the same one as the
left. They just need to change the "secondary click" in System
Preferences to right from left. Then it is almost the same as other
systems with what it does.

Thanks, Ian! I didn't know that. The Mac I'm (occasionally) using isn't
new, and anyway I use a Microsoft mouse on it because switching mouse
types between the Windows, Linux, and Mac computers drives me nuts...
and the MS mouse gives me the right-click capability.

--Jean

It also works on the trackpad as well Jean.

Tom,

If you are going to update the table relating to Mac commands be aware
that the Mac Books and some of the other Apple keyboards have fewer keys
than other PC brands. They use the fn key with them. For example the
"delete" key deletes from right to left-- the "fn + delete" from left to
right. Some of the ones in the existing list give different results to
what is shown.

I am in the process of trying to find time to create a bit better intro
list (guide) for the Mac users. I may have got it done by the time the
3.5 documentation is being done.

Ian

Hi :slight_smile:
I wasn't going to update the table. I last used a mac about 15 years ago so i
am a 'little' hazy about it. You know on a PC keyboard the delete above the
enter key is sometimes called a "backspace" key to distinguish it from the "Del"
key? I take it the Mac delete key is a backspace key?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi

That's what I meant. I use a PC at work and if some of them had words on them rather than arrow symbols it would make it easier to remember the names!.

I did think you personally was updating the table. Just that I was trying to improve on the current version and when I might have it done by.

Regards

Ian

________________________________
From: Ian Leyton <leytonir@gmail.com>
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 22:47:03
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters

On 5/08/11 7:34 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

________________________________
From: Ian Leyton<leytonir@gmail.com>
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 22:18:46
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters

On 4/08/11 10:26 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :slight_smile:
That's nice but i think it's a good idea to keep the note about right-click.

It

might be good to expand on that little table if possible. Perhaps adding the
info about how to redefine the new right-click is worth adding to that note?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: Jean Hollis Weber<jeanweber@gmail.com>
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 11:59:18
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters

On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 19:54 +1000, Ian Leyton wrote:

On 4/08/11 6:37 PM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:

On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 09:05 +0100, Tom Davies wrote:

... it might also be good for the Mac's quick little table at the start
of all guides to show key combination equivalents of right-click and

stuff.

Yes, definitely on the list for those chapters and books that don't
already have that info. Thanks for the reminder.

--Jean

Just remember that the newer Mac's do actually have a right-click and so
does the Mac Magic mouse. The default is just set to the same one as the
left. They just need to change the "secondary click" in System
Preferences to right from left. Then it is almost the same as other
systems with what it does.

Thanks, Ian! I didn't know that. The Mac I'm (occasionally) using isn't
new, and anyway I use a Microsoft mouse on it because switching mouse
types between the Windows, Linux, and Mac computers drives me nuts...
and the MS mouse gives me the right-click capability.

--Jean

It also works on the trackpad as well Jean.

Tom,

If you are going to update the table relating to Mac commands be aware
that the Mac Books and some of the other Apple keyboards have fewer keys
than other PC brands. They use the fn key with them. For example the
"delete" key deletes from right to left-- the "fn + delete" from left to
right. Some of the ones in the existing list give different results to
what is shown.

I am in the process of trying to find time to create a bit better intro
list (guide) for the Mac users. I may have got it done by the time the
3.5 documentation is being done.

Ian

Hi :slight_smile:
I wasn't going to update the table. I last used a mac about 15 years ago so i
am a 'little' hazy about it. You know on a PC keyboard the delete above the
enter key is sometimes called a "backspace" key to distinguish it from the
"Del"
key? I take it the Mac delete key is a backspace key?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi

That's what I meant. I use a PC at work and if some of them had words on
them rather than arrow symbols it would make it easier to remember the
names!.

I did think you personally were updating the table. Just that I was
trying to improve on the current version and when I might have it done by.

Regards

Ian

Hi :slight_smile:
Lol, i thought we were just discussing ideas about possible ways things might be
developed in the future. Real action is usually out of my reach.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: