First pass complete

OK, all the files for the Calc Guide are in the LibO format now. I'll start working on the screenshot verifications tomorrow, where I can.

Hi Barbara, :slight_smile:

If you look in the Various space, you'll see that there's a zip file
containing screenshots done by Ron Faile... Maybe they can be useful?

David Nelson

As I understand it, those screenshots were for a couple of early Writer chapters -- and done with Windows, which we are not using now for legal reasons.

Hi, :slight_smile:

I haven't looked, I must admit. Are you on Windows, Mac or Linux, Barbara?

David Nelson

I'm on Windows 7, David. There are probably going to be a large number of graphics replacements needed -- even beyond the OOo refs, there appear to be significant differences in icons, and so on. Gonna be fun, huh?

Hi, :slight_smile:

I'm on Windows 7, David. There are probably going to be a large number of
graphics replacements needed -- even beyond the OOo refs, there appear to be
significant differences in icons, and so on. Gonna be fun, huh?

It sounds like a major rework of all the graphic content in all the
docs is going to be an upcoming task... Most of the screenshots will
have to be taken on Linux (obviously, there will be a certain number
needed for Mac and Windows).

It's going to be a busy year.

David Nelson

Fortunately, many of the screenshots are already from Linux (usually
Ubuntu), and many others are o/s neutral (for example, bits of a spreadsheet
that don't show the window decoration), but yes there are quite a few
clearly from Windows -- though old WinXP pix look to me more like Ubuntu
than WinVista or Win7.

When I am retaking pix for other reasons, I'm taking them on Ubuntu, but I
haven't been retaking all the pix just to get them out of Windows.

Do we have a requirement to get rid of all the Windows pix in the Writer
Guide before publishing the first edition?

The Getting Started book certainly hasn't had all the Windows pix replaced.

Hal

Hi, :slight_smile:

Fortunately, many of the screenshots are already from Linux (usually
Ubuntu), and many others are o/s neutral (for example, bits of a spreadsheet
that don't show the window decoration), but yes there are quite a few
clearly from Windows -- though old WinXP pix look to me more like Ubuntu
than WinVista or Win7.

When I am retaking pix for other reasons, I'm taking them on Ubuntu, but I
haven't been retaking all the pix just to get them out of Windows.

Do we have a requirement to get rid of all the Windows pix in the Writer
Guide before publishing the first edition?

Well, given the firm opposition to Windows screenshots I've read in
the recent past, I'd say it would be a good idea...

The Getting Started book certainly hasn't had all the Windows pix replaced.

I guess it would be an issue to be addressed, hopefully with
preparation of a revised edition for lulu.com...

Again, this is just my 2 cents based on previous discussions in the lists.

David Nelson

Certainly a revised Getting Started book (which needs other corrections and
updates, not just the pix) should have the screenshots replaced. I rather
jumped the gun shoving out the book before it was fully reviewed and edited,
on the theory that it's more efficient to ask forgiveness than it is to ask
permission. :wink:

On the same principle, I don't think we should delay the first edition of
the Writer Guide only to update the screenshots; IMO we should publish the
chapters ASAP and move on, returning to fiddle with pix when we're doing
other updates and revisions.

I'd like to see the WG chapters available to the public on the wiki as soon
as we're verified that the facts are correct. So far, the work Barbara's
done that I've checked looks very close to first publication (by my
standards); I'm hoping to quickly get through the other chapters she's done,
though I may be overly optimistic about my time available.

Of course, if several people with non-Windows boxes can tackle the pix
quickly enough, publication would not be delayed.

Hal

Hi, :slight_smile:

On the same principle, I don't think we should delay the first edition of
the Writer Guide only to update the screenshots; IMO we should publish the
chapters ASAP and move on, returning to fiddle with pix when we're doing
other updates and revisions.

I'm not sure what to say about this. Personally, I don't have a
problem with Windows screenshots but, anticipating what certain others
might say, it might be better to hold back a little longer and do
those screenshots so as to put the problem to rest...

I'd like to see the WG chapters available to the public on the wiki as soon
as we're verified that the facts are correct. So far, the work Barbara's
done that I've checked looks very close to first publication (by my
standards); I'm hoping to quickly get through the other chapters she's done,
though I may be overly optimistic about my time available.

Apart from the screenshots thing above, I'd agree it would be best to
get it out as quickly as possible. Are you guys OK with working the
wiki pages, or would you like me, or someone else, to deal with that?

Do you guys have wiki accounts already? If not, tell me and I'll
create them for you.

Of course, if several people with non-Windows boxes can tackle the pix
quickly enough, publication would not be delayed.

I certainly can't jump in before Feb 20, but I'll be happy to help out
as from that date. If that helps, please tell me and I'll put aside
time for that, and work under your coordination on it.

David Nelson

I've got a wiki account and can put chapters on the wiki when they are
ready, no problem. I'm not sure I can do whatever is needed to link to them
from the Documentation page on the website, when the time comes for that.

I suspect the Writer Guide chapters won't all be otherwise "done" before the
20th, so I'm sure we can put you to work doing screenshots at that time. :slight_smile:

Hal

Hi, :slight_smile:

I've got a wiki account and can put chapters on the wiki when they are
ready, no problem. I'm not sure I can do whatever is needed to link to them
from the Documentation page on the website, when the time comes for that.

OK, I can help with that, but you'll see it's really easy.

I suspect the Writer Guide chapters won't all be otherwise "done" before the
20th, so I'm sure we can put you to work doing screenshots at that time. :slight_smile:

No problemo. :wink:

David Nelson

Hi David,

I'm not sure what to say about this. Personally, I don't have a
problem with Windows screenshots but, anticipating what certain others
might say, it might be better to hold back a little longer and do
those screenshots so as to put the problem to rest...

I hear you :slight_smile: Time to chime in then.

Just as a reminder to all :

The reason is simple : Microsoft basically says no "UI elements, icons
or other bits of our copyright protected OS" in documentation under an
open source licence, that is then likely to be sold / commercialised,
unless they, i.e. Microsoft, give you permission to do so.

1) MS were apparently contacted in the past (by Florian from what I have
read, but I have no actual confirmation of that) about giving their
permission to such use in the German OOo community documentation effort,
and no positive reply was forthcoming. Remember that at the time, Sun
had also signed a mutual agreement with Microsoft to settle all
IP-related litigation, but the agreement was not a blanket free-for-all
get off the hook. Indeed, most of the details of the agreement never
came out, and I'd place no bets on MS having allowed the community "free
electron" aspect of OOo any leeway whatsoever, contrary to whatever Sun
might have gained for StarOffice, its proprietary product offering.

2) The current authoring / documentation community may wish to throw
caution to the wind, but it is my understanding that TDF would not
particularly relish the thought of being accused of any sort of
infringement by MS, or even giving them the chance to do so. MS have had
a fairly broad communication strategy of indicating when they felt
others, particularly the free software community, infringed on their IP
rights in one way or another. Getting market penetration is one thing -
doing so at the risk of being accused of infringement is not the way to
gain the support of a more widespread public, especially those in
executive IT functions, who will have their own legal departments
breathing down their necks.

All it takes is one press release from an antagonistic player. It
doesn't matter whether MS, or anyone else for that matter, is right or
wrong, what matters is the effect it will have on the project as a whole.

Oh, and just because OOoAuthors / ODFAuthors was unaware of this, or
chose to ignore it in the past is no excuse. They (as in the
"organisation") should be equally aware of the problem, but the risks
they take are their own.

Alex

Everything I've seen in the Writer document has been done on Windows (Vista
or 7).

If we want to avoid using MS's elements, useful screen shots like showing
what's on a particular property page can be done by shooting the client area
of the window only.

There is also a product called "Window Blinds" which allows skinning of
Windows.

Later chapters have a lot of Linux pix. Jean