Volunteer to Proofread (Starting with the website.)

Hi Tom, :slight_smile:

I think i could re-organise the  "Get Help" web-page a bit if that's not too
cheeky.  I think this order might be 'better'?

* Accessibility information:
       * FAQs: contains System requirements:
       * Installation instructions:

* Documentation:
       * Mailing lists:
       * IRC channels: It might be good practice for me to do something radical like
that. Or perhaps FAQs and Accessibility are usually at the end so people know
where to look for them?

Thanks for the too-kind words, Tom, but I'm not sure they're justified. Anyway:

As regards changes to the site's IA, the path would be to sign-up for
the website mailing list, post a suggestion there, discuss the ideas
thoroughly with the other members of the website team, and with the
design team, and get their go-ahead before actually doing anything.
There are already discussions on the subject that are on-going there.
:wink:

If you're interested in some work, I'd have an idea to offer you if you like?

David Nelson

Hi :slight_smile:

Ok. I might not do the thing you ask but it would be good to hear.

I am on the website mailing list but haven't noticed any chats there for a
while. It's possible that i accidentally filtered or unsubscribed so i will
have a look. I thought you were the main person for the website anyway?

Many thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Tom, :slight_smile:

Ok.  I might not do the thing you ask but it would be good to hear.

OK, I'll start a new thread called "Template repository maintenance"
and post back there. Obviously, it's purely a tentative idea and thank
you for being willing to listen to it.

I am on the website mailing list but haven't noticed any chats there for a
while.  It's possible that i accidentally filtered or unsubscribed so i will
have a look.  I thought you were the main person for the website anyway?

The website mailing list is *very* active. Are you sure you're signed
up for the right list, Tom?

The subscription address is: website+subscribe@libreoffice.org

It's the best place for questions and discussions concerning
SilverStripe and anything a bit "webby".

David Nelson

Wow! Those are some obscure pages! Yes, they do look as though they have not
been as thoroughly ironed-out as some other pages although i am sure we are so
hasty right now that errors are possible everywhere.

I have to say that government documents tend to be hideously full of cliches and
buzz-words (oops is that old now?) and grotesquely long meandering sentences
that end up being almost completely meaningless. Almost like academic papers
but tending to induce winces at tautologies and mixed metaphors. By contrast
business documents should be
1. short
2. bullet pointed,
4. bad seplings and tpyos
5.Not quite laid out properly
9 inconsistent but very definite!

As for the quality of English i think what we have is far better than the
quality of English spoken by the vast majority of people here in England. One
quick trip down to any council housing estate would make you appreciate the
finesse and elegance we have on our website even before proofreading.

If you do proofread it down to boring correctness then i am sure it would be
appreciated tho :slight_smile:
Good luck and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

PS Wow, that fun :slight_smile:

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to point fingers and insult people, but I'm just
trying to point out where it's wrong. (I don't even know who wrote them in
the first place, nor do I care.) I'm only interested in fixing them.

Regarding what Mr. Davies was addressing, I don't aim to make the pages
boring, I just plan on bringing clarity to the statements.
Although the "Make your children's homework" statement was quite amusing.
A few exclamation marks here and there always lighten the mood, and a bit of
sarcasm never hurt anybody. (Unless it's an insult, but that's unrelated.)

As I was saying earlier, I'd be happy to help proof-read those sections, and
edit the mistakes, however I'd like to discuss layout and methods a bit
more. Should we speak in a boring mono-tone voice, or should we try to make
the site more personable? Obviously you speak to people looking for a home
option differently than you would a businessman, however where should the
line be drawn?

-Clayton (Ton of Clay) Walker

David, do you think I should sign up to the website mailing list?

Also, if we need any format pages, we could always look to other office
software web-pages, and look at what they find most important to display.

But if there's any style I particularly love, it's the sytle Apple uses.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/performance.html
A fairly long page, lots of nice images, and bolded text here and there.
Clean, readable, and very nice-looking.

Hi Clayton, :slight_smile:

Initially, I'd suggest that you read the Features section of the site,
and the sub-pages about the individual LibreOffice applications. My 2
cents would be to adopt a similar style layout-wise, and a similar
writing style, too.

That way, all content would be consistent, with no "mini-revolutions"
in a small subset of pages. 90% of the rest of the site content was
provided by myself, and I proofread/edited the rest, so my
*suggestion* would be to do the "Why?" pages on similar lines.

At a later date, we'll be re-visiting the page layouts with the
involvement of our Design team. At that time, we can spruce the page
presentations up a lot.

However, if you have new ideas about style and layouts, please do tell
us about them, so that we can take a look at them all together,
because fresh input is always welcome.

In any case, like Frank Sinatra sang, just do it your way, and then we
can take a look all together after.

And a big thanks for your help! :slight_smile:

David Nelson

Alright, cool.

Onto some critics, not so much ideas.
First off, my eyes just glazed over. I can't read walls of text. Inset
images are always nice, as long as they aren't too obtrusive and obscure. I
can provide screen shots from a Mac, as I'm using one now.
Speaking of which, another huge point would be cross platform support, that
is after all one of our larges selling points (next to the fact that it's
free.)
Also, an interesting Idea would be to just list VERY short bullet points,
maybe with tiny graphics included.

Just some ideas.

Another point is that it sounds like we are trying our hardest to convince
these people that we are up to standards, instead of boasting features that
make LO different and unique. We boast that we are the same.

Hi Clayton, :slight_smile:

David, do you think I should sign up to the website mailing list?

Yes, it would be a great idea. Most of the discussions about the
website take place on the website list, with some overflow onto the
design list (notably as regards graphics and the site CSS).

Also, if we need any format pages, we could always look to other office
software web-pages, and look at what they find most important to display.

But if there's any style I particularly love, it's the sytle Apple uses.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/performance.html
A fairly long page, lots of nice images, and bolded text here and there.
Clean, readable, and very nice-looking.

It's surely a nice site. Our design team is thinking about the
presentation aspects a lot, but there will probably be no *major*
changes for a few months, as we only just got through a pretty
gruelling process of getting the site live.

I think we're all taking a temporary breather while we focus on other
stuff a bit - although this in no way precludes the discussion and
development of ideas in the meantime.

But the site content is still under development in the Features, Why?
and About Us sections, so there's a *lot* of work to do there. And -
again - there is *no* reason why suggestions can't be made and
possibly implemented for the other sections of content.

David Nelson

Hi Clayton, :slight_smile:

Please do go ahead and write the kind of content you'd like to see.
Let your imagination go, and let your ideas flow.

Maybe focus on text first off, and then we can talk about graphics and
screenshots after? (Mac is OK-ish, Ubuntu fits perfectly with current
material, and Windows is a no-no for potential copyright reasons.)

David Nelson

True, but perhaps screenshots from Linux Mint would be better? After all, LM
is green, and that seems to be the current theme.
And I'll be fixing the grammatical errors, and then we can discuss layout
later, I like that idea.

One thing that I was going to mention (my main reason for joining this list actually) is the inconsistency between the application descriptions on the Why for...? pages.

Take Impress - described as a "A presentation", "Presentation" and "Presentation manager" on different pages. If we're describing the application, it should be something like Presentation manager or Presentation software, rather than just Presentation. That would describe the document produced by it. Same for the spreadsheet - Calc is a spreadsheet package, spreadsheet program and a spreadsheet application but is not a spreadsheet.

Then on the Why for NFPs and NGOs page, it describes tasks that the suite can do. "Word processor" is not a task nor is "Diagramming and charting tool". Better to make it like the other pages, and describe the applications contained within the suite IMO.

Clayton makes some good points about the need to get these right - this is where we're trying to sell the application to new users, so if it doesn't read right then we'll end up putting people off.

Jaxson Lee

Already working on it, I also noticed that. I also noticed that
the writer loved to mention the fact that it _CAN_ create professional
_LOOKING_ documents, as if it needed to be mentioned that software capable
of writing professional letters was hard to come by.
I also agree with you on the references, as well as filler sentences leading
nowhere.

One more thing I noticed was the personal style the writer chose, always
saying "they" and "you" and other words forcing LO down the readers throat.
I'm currently re-working the grammer and consistency, as well as removing
the redundancy. The actual content (or aim) isn't being changed, nor is the
layout and format (yet).

Clayton (Sky-) Walker

Hi Clayton, :slight_smile:

True, but perhaps screenshots from Linux Mint would be better? After all, LM
is green, and that seems to be the current theme.

Sure, that's fine... Could you please maybe mail me one just to see
what it looks like?

So I guess you just read Jaxson? :wink:

BTW, Jaxson, are you interested in working on some of the stuff in the
Features section? Jeremy Cartwright has currently "checked out"
Features > Writer, but would you maybe like to work on something else?

David Nelson

I'm... not... running it right now, maybe that's a question for the
community, but here's a few screenies.
http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/linux-mint-499x383.jpg
http://www.linuxmint.com/pictures/screenshots/gloria/12.png

Hi Clayton, :slight_smile:

Well, with the brown window frames, it actually looks not dissimilar
to Ubuntu, so that would be fine. But probably you can configure a Mac
to meet that same "constraint", too. I was just thinking about
avoiding breaking visually too much with the existing screenshots, but
it's not a big issue. The only *real* constraint is avoiding Windows
screenshots except where we can't.

David Nelson

What's the problem with Windows? Wouldn't Mac be the same then?

Hi, :slight_smile:

What's the problem with Windows? Wouldn't Mac be the same then?

No, various project members asked me to not do Windows screenshots
because of us potentially being sued on a copyright issue. The only
exceptions ATM are the Windows installation instuctions and maybe
certain New Features and Fixes specific to Windows.

AFAIK, getting sued is not perceived as a risk with Apple.

David Nelson

Because they don't issue out their own productivity software? Or is it
because they aren't on such a sue spree? Doesn't matter either way, I get
your drift.
Also, did anybody get my suggested publishing? And is there any sort
of collaboration settings as well?