question from alfresco

Hi,

I tried alfresco as a guest and found at Alfresco Explorer the content
Item "0101GS3-IntroducingLibO_draft_RMF_20101031.odt" on which I have a
question. Where is the right place to post it?

Or for now: in the minimum requirements paragraph is as OS XP or
Windows 7, doesn't LibO work on vista?

and second just for my information: will all books be published on
oooauthors? I thought to have read it would give something like
odf-authors. Am I wrong with this. or how do this connect?

(sorry, english is not my native language)

Regards
Karl-Heinz

Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:

I tried alfresco as a guest and found at Alfresco Explorer the content
Item "0101GS3-IntroducingLibO_draft_RMF_20101031.odt" on which I have a
question. Where is the right place to post it?

Right here on this mailing list.

Or  for now: in the minimum requirements paragraph is as OS XP or
Windows 7, doesn't LibO work on vista?

I can confirm that LibO works fine on Vista (it being an intermediate
version between Windows XP and Windows 7).

and second just for my information: will all books be published on
oooauthors? I thought to have read it would give something like
odf-authors. Am I wrong with this. or how do this connect?

http://www.odfauthors.org/

David Nelson

Thanks David,

David Nelson schrieb:

Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:

Or for now: in the minimum requirements paragraph is as OS XP or
Windows 7, doesn't LibO work on vista?
    
I can confirm that LibO works fine on Vista (it being an intermediate
version between Windows XP and Windows 7).
  

OK. the script left out vista.
and referred on the second page to OOoAuthors.

but the question I tried to ask was: may anyone change this draft or is
someone special to ask for this corrections?

and how do fit alfresco with odf-authors? is this a second platform?

I wanna help, but first I must get clear the
connections/conjunctions/chainings.

Karl-Heinz

Hi Karl-Heinz,

Thanks David,

David Nelson schrieb:
> Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:
>
>> Or for now: in the minimum requirements paragraph is as OS XP or
>> Windows 7, doesn't LibO work on vista?
>
> I can confirm that LibO works fine on Vista (it being an intermediate
> version between Windows XP and Windows 7).

OK. the script left out vista.
and referred on the second page to OOoAuthors.

the page of OOoAuthors will soon be redirected to ODFAuthors.org. There is not only a
change in the naming, but also a change in the server and the version of Plone (the
CMS that runs Authors). The ODFAuthors site is designed to host the work
documentation teams around the Open Document Format.

but the question I tried to ask was: may anyone change this draft or is
someone special to ask for this corrections?

and how do fit alfresco with odf-authors? is this a second platform?

The ODFAuthors site and Alfresco are two different things on different server. The
first one is hosted on a server of the TDF and the latter is hosted on Davids server
and will get a subdomain of libreoffice.org next time.

Regards,
Andreas

Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:

OK. the script left out vista.
and referred on the second page to OOoAuthors.

This is something that will be looked at during the course of proofreading.

but the question I tried to ask was: may anyone change this draft or is
someone special to ask for this corrections?

If you'd like to get involved in working on documentation, you'll be
most welcome. If you like, you can have a user account on the Alfresco
site, and then you will be able to get involved in the workflow there.
Or you can get involved in the development of an l10n workflow.

and how do fit alfresco with odf-authors? is this a second platform?

The SC took a decision at its last meeting to accept the Alfresco site
a part of its Web infrastructure, and to put it under a LibreOffice
sub-domain (probably alfresco.libreoffice.org).

Most/all active members of the LibreOffice documentation team now have
an account there, and a workflow has been developed for the English
documentation team.

A few members of the l10n community have already expressed interest in
using Alfresco. Probably more will also do so once they become aware
of its existence.

Certainly, Alfresco has many technical advantages to offer. See my
comments below:

IMHO, the odfauthors.org software is far from being an ideal tool for
the LibreOffice docs team.

A) The odfauthors.org software is a product of a past time, when
leading-edge systems like Alfresco had not yet reached maturity, that
does not have all the features and power of a full-blooded content
development system like Alfresco: a mature version control system;
powerful and sophisticated workflow management; powerful content
search capability able to search within the managed content; built-in
discussion system that lets you anchor a discussion on a particular
content object; easy updating and uploading of content from directly
within the LibreOffice applications, via the Alfresco plugin for
OOo/LibO; etc.

B) The odfauthors.org software is a hybrid, one-off, custom
application without any community taking its development forward. The
odfauthors.org system is a software dead-end, based upon a CMS that is
not very widely used, for which little technical support is available
except from a small group of developers. Alfresco has an entire
community behind it.

C) The odfauthors.org software does not have the capabilities of
Alfresco to cater to the LibreOffice project's future needs for a
sophisticated product that can integrate closely with the project's
other development systems. Alfresco can provide a powerful platform
for the production and maintenance of developer documentation: API
manuals, etc. The odfauthors.org software cannot compete with it
feature-wise: it is a fairly manual system that is now dated.

However, no-one going to be in any way obliged to use Alfresco, just
as no-one is going to be obliged to develop LibreOffice documentation
on the odfauthors.org site.

I think that you can say that, ultimately, LibreOffice project
contributors are going to make their own choice and vote with their
feet.

My own personal take on things is this:

I think that odfauthors.org is a great resource for smaller Open
Source projects that don't have the people, time or resources to
properly develop their own documentation.

In addition, I feel that the LibreOffice project naturally has a
common interest with odfauthors.org: the promotion of the ODF format.
And, as another Open Source project, notably one that promotes the ODF
format, we should be supportive of odfauthors.org.

But I think it's in the best interests of a major software project
like LibreOffice to have an in-house documentation team with in-house
expertise.

No matter what similarities there might be between OpenOffice.org and
LibreOffice right at present (odfauthors.org develops documentation
for OpenOffice.org), the two products are quickly going to diverge.
LibreOffice might as well start developing its own documentation team
and expertise now - especially considering the need, at a future time,
to develop comprehensive developer documentation for LibreOffice, in
view of rendering it truly open.

Alfresco has many essential features and capabilities for that.

I wanna help, but first I must get clear the
connections/conjunctions/chainings.

HTH.

David Nelson

Hi David, *,

Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 01:10, Karl-Heinz Gödderz

(...)

Most/all active members of the LibreOffice documentation team now have
an account there, and a workflow has been developed for the English
documentation team.

it would be interesting to know something about the number of members and about the
language they working on.
Did they create new documentation for LibreOffice or adapt the documentation from
OOoAuthors/ODFAuthors to LibreOffice?

A few members of the l10n community have already expressed interest in
using Alfresco. Probably more will also do so once they become aware
of its existence.

Did you have some numbers here?

Certainly, Alfresco has many technical advantages to offer. See my
comments below:

(...)

B) The odfauthors.org software is a hybrid, one-off, custom
application without any community taking its development forward. The
odfauthors.org system is a software dead-end, based upon a CMS that is
not very widely used, for which little technical support is available
except from a small group of developers. Alfresco has an entire
community behind it.

Hmm. I don't know where you get your knowledge about Plone from, but it seemed a bit
outdated to me :wink:

Regards,
Andreas

Andreas Mantke wrote:

the page of OOoAuthors will soon be redirected to ODFAuthors.org.

Thanks for this promise! I hope this happens as soon as possible,
because right now volunteers are a bit confused by seeing both
oooauthors.org and odfauthors.org alive and no prominent notices or
redirections from oooauthors.org. Your idea can serve as a nice example
to others, so I hope it is finalized soon (no need to rush, but clarity
helps a lot these times).

The ODFAuthors site and Alfresco are two different things on different
server.

I understand (and share) David's remarks that Alfresco is a superior
system, but I think Italian volunteers would like to maybe try it at a
later stage, and for the time being just move to odfauthors.org when
oooauthors.org is migrated there.

Regards,
  Andrea.

Hi, :slight_smile:

I understand (and share) David's remarks that Alfresco is a superior
system, but I think Italian volunteers would like to maybe try it at a
later stage, and for the time being just move to odfauthors.org when
oooauthors.org is migrated there.

Andrea, whenever the Italian NL team wants to do docs work there, we
can duplicate the existing docs workflow of the English team and we
could maybe do some great work together. Although if you prefer to
work in complete independence from the English effort, you'd obviously
be free to do so as well.

If you guys are interested in doing other areas of localization, we'll
be really pleased to work on a dedicated workflow for that - this work
could benefit other interested NL teams, too.

David Nelson

The English documentation work has been migrated to ODFAuthors.org.
Folders and files have been set up on ODFAuthors for the other language
groups that were on OOoAuthors. The Italian group can use the new
website now. I think German and Dutch groups are using it already (not
sure about that).

We have not yet done redirections from OOoAuthors to ODFAuthors, because
we want to make sure everyone has their work moved onto the new website
before we make a final change. If the Italian group tells us they have
made the change, that will help.

We are changing links and references from the old site to the new site
when we find them, and I will soon put a notice on the OOoAuthors
website itself, to tell people about the new site. Thanks for the
reminder about that. But language groups will need to have their own
notices, if they want them.

--Jean

Hi,

I tried alfresco as a guest and found at Alfresco Explorer the content
Item "0101GS3-IntroducingLibO_draft_RMF_20101031.odt" on which I have a
question. Where is the right place to post it?

Or for now: in the minimum requirements paragraph is as OS XP or
Windows 7, doesn't LibO work on vista?

That is a very old file, an early draft of the chapter. It should not be on
the Alfresco site. The updated file has the name 0101GS3-IntroducingLibO.odt
and is available from http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/ as
well as on the Alfresco site.

If the error (no mention of Vista) is in the updated file, then this is the
place to tell us about it.

The reference to OOoAuthors is not in the updated file.

and second just for my information: will all books be published on
oooauthors? I thought to have read it would give something like
odf-authors. Am I wrong with this. or how do this connect?

The books will be published (made available to users) on the
libreoffice.orgwebsite. Some language groups will use the Alfresco
site to produce their
books; other language groups may use the ODFAuthors site.

Hal

David, you appear to have a warped and not entirely correct view of
ODFAuthors. It's a *website* that is available to any group who wishes
to use it. There is no reason why an "in-house documentation team with
in-house expertise" should not use the website.

Your comment suggests that you think the existing team of techwriters at
ODFAuthors are intending to work on all the projects that might use the
website. Of course there will be --and already is-- some overlap in
people working on OOo docs (through ODFAuthors) and LibO docs (wherever
that's done); but that's unrelated to *where* the work is done.

No problem if the LibreOffice docs team choose to not use the ODFAuthors
website for the technical reasons you mention, but the "in-house
expertise" argument doesn't hold up.

--Jean

I don't know numbers of people, but I can speak about the docs themselves.

The first set of English user guides for LibreOffice are being adapted from
the OOo user guides created by OOo/ODFAuthors. This is to enable us to have
a set of user guides ready as quickly as possible. We expect that in the
future, the two sets of user guides will become more different.

Personally, I suspect that in the future, the OOo docs team will start
adapting the LibO docs set for OOo, instead of the other way around. But
that's just my guess.

Hal

Hi David,

You do not need to repeat a mail that you have already sent to the community. There is archives of the list, so please, just provide the link to your message, we will read it again if we want.

Whatever the time of the ODF software, it has proven to be a tool appreciated by a big part of our community and its efficiency to provide great documentation to our users.

Nobody here will be forced to use a tool because it is more up to date, we absolutely don't care.

What we care is to be respectful to the work done by our community members and to provide a good environment of peace and welcome to *all* of them
So please thanks to remind that we are all here to provide the best documentation to the LibreOffice users, respecting each others and the way we work.
Thanks for understanding

Kind regards
Sophie

Hi Karl-Heinz, :slight_smile:

OK. the script left out vista.
and referred on the second page to OOoAuthors.

[...]

Hi Sophie, :slight_smile:

Please do not be laying down rules about what I may or may not write,
so long as it is said in a courteous manner. That would be contrary to
the principle of equality in this community.

I will feel free to re-post portions of what I may have already posted
in a past thread, when it is relevant to the conversation, and you
have absolutely no reason to be telling me otherwise.

Moreover, when you call for "peace and welcome" in the lists, it would
be better if you address those words to those that need to heed them.
I am *always* courteous to people in my messages - which is not always
the same thing as I receive from certain other people - so please
remember to be balanced and objective in your opinions.

Please read what is said, and respond with careful thought.

Thank you for your understanding.

David Nelson

Hi Hal, @all,

Hal Parker schrieb:

The books will be published (made available to users) on the
libreoffice.orgwebsite. Some language groups will use the Alfresco
site to produce their
books; other language groups may use the ODFAuthors site.

Hal
  
so just to know: where will be the central point to get the information
which document is published on which place?

in the past, I think, in one language the document was written and
translated to others. so if one doc is on platform x another at y and
translations at w and v where can they be linked/connected (right word?)?

because if the original doc is changed so the translators can be informed?

Regards
Karl-Heinz

I have now put a notice on the first page of the OOoAuthors website and
on the first page of the English section. I would like to put these
notices into a coloured box so they are more noticeable, but it's too
early in the morning for me to remember (or look up) how to do this.

--Jean

Jean Hollis Weber ha scritto:

We have not yet done redirections from OOoAuthors to ODFAuthors, because
we want to make sure everyone has their work moved onto the new website
before we make a final change. If the Italian group tells us they have
made the change, that will help.

We are changing links and references from the old site to the new site
when we find them, and I will soon put a notice on the OOoAuthors
website itself, to tell people about the new site. Thanks for the
reminder about that. But language groups will need to have their own
notices, if they want them.

--Jean
  

Hi Jean, *,
I've just compared folders of the italian section on both sites; everything is in the new site too.
I've no permissions to modify the main page of the italian section, but maybe Mario Pichetti (that read cc) can add a short note with the new link.
Thank you.
Namastè! :slight_smile:

Thanks a lot for this, and no need for coloured boxes, this already
helps a lot in making it clear to volunteers that there is only one new
home for OOoAuthors and that the old site is being discontinued.

As Cico wrote, we will take care of putting a similar notice in the
Italian pages.

Regards,
  Andrea.