LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

________________________________
From: Andy Brown <andy@the-martin-byrd.net>
To: documentation@libreoffice.org
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:35:40 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Hi Jonathon,

On Wed Nov 03 2010 11:19:56 GMT-0700 (PDT) jonathon wrote:

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All:

Between the talk about LibreOffice branding, and creating documentation
for LibreOffice, has anybody considered the template to be used for
LibreOffice Documentation?

@ Do we use the same template as OOoAuthors, with the following changes:
* Replace the OpenOffice.org logo with the LibreOffice logo;
* Replace the OOo Blue colour scheme with the LibreOffice branding palette;

My personal feeling is that we do this. Easier in the long term to just changes
than to completely redo with work. May as well start from scratch if we do
that.

Andy

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I've done some work on modifying the existing OOo template (see attached). Jean
added the new logo and text colors and I've made some edits to the text and
updated all the page styles from OOo to LibO. Which ever way we go, I think we
need to agree on a new font for all the docs. The current DejaVu font seems
hard to read to me. The character spacing seems a bit odd. Maybe something more
clear and modern.

Ron

@ Or do we a create a brand new template, ignoring the existing
OOoAuthors template;

I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally
rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
that makes any sense.

I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
"Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
which direction to scroll/flip through the document.

Just my $0.02.

I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally

rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
that makes any sense.

I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
"Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
which direction to scroll/flip through the document.

I agree on all points.

Ron

> @ Or do we a create a brand new template, ignoring the existing
> OOoAuthors template;
>
>
I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally
rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
that makes any sense.

True, but a lot of more modern looks do not output well to any format
other than PDF. In fact, some of the formatting in the current OOo books
does not work when output to HTML and some is a bit messy when output to
wiki format. Post-processing may clean it up, but more manual
intervention may be necessary. This is something to consider --and
test-- when deciding which output formats and layouts are wanted.

I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
"Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
which direction to scroll/flip through the document.

Outline numbering makes a book look much more "technical" and can be
very offputting to ordinary users. So it's good in material for
sysadmins, developers, etc, but I would strongly advise against it in
end-user oriented books, despite the potential advantage you have
mentioned.

Also, on a practical note: you would need to investigate (test) how to
implement automated numbering in the individual chapter files so it
behaves (doesn't change) when part of a compiled book AND the table of
contents displays the correct section and page numbers. The TOC was the
problem in many systems we attempted to use. For example, I really
wanted to use page-numbering-by-chapter (so the page numbers in the
individual chapter files matched those in the compiled book), but the
TOC in the compiled book wouldn't do it correctly. I haven't checked
recently to see if this has changed.

--Jean

Ron:

-I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
that makes any sense.

I totally agree, the old template does look 'old'. With LibreOffice
being a 'new' product I think it is very important to rebrand and
modernise. An updated font and colour scheme will be very important to
make it appear 'new'.

I would like the documents to use outline numbering <> you would say "Please
reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs."

This sounds fantastic. I have found in my work as a professional end
user I always use outline numbering. It makes it look more
professional and brings with it some big advantages for ease of use. I
don't think it would make it unapproachable as Jean suggests as a lot
of end user products now use numbered outlines (See
Wikipedia:OpenOffice.org). I also think this more professional look
would also assist the LibreOffice product in breaking into enterprise
markets.

Jean:

Also, on a practical note: you would need to investigate (test) how to
implement automated numbering in the individual chapter files so it
behaves (doesn't change) when part of a compiled book AND the table of
contents displays the correct section and page numbers. The TOC was the
problem in many systems we attempted to use. For example, I really
wanted to use page-numbering-by-chapter (so the page numbers in the
individual chapter files matched those in the compiled book), but the
TOC in the compiled book wouldn't do it correctly. I haven't checked
recently to see if this has changed.

This is a challenge. The good part is that if the chapter and
numbering system does not allow us to do this we can alter the program
so that it can handle this requirement, and it is a very important
requirement for many professional end users.

Michael Wheatland (Wheatbix)
www.wheatland.com.au

I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour scheme.
It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
the professional look.

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ

What do you all think?

Hi!

I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour
scheme.
It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
the professional look.

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ

What do you all think?

OMG, that font is hard to read :frowning: What font are you using? Or is because of
the distribution media?

Cheers

The font is Liberation Sans. Suitable Name, and one of the better GPL fonts.

It looks like Google translates the pages into image files.
You can find it here in ODT format:

www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockUp.odt
or
www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockup.pdf

I have embedded the font in the pdf version or you should have the
Liberation Fonts installed.

Liberation fonts are installed by default on most, if not all, Linux boxes. Not sure of Win boxes, and I suspect not by default as they are meant as replacement for the set of MS ariel etc. fonts.

Marc

BTW .. you may be interested in keeping an eye on a thread on the marketing mailist "Change icon?". I don't know if this affects you if the changes are adopted.

Marc

I like the more modern look and the numbering. Can we remove the 'this pdf is designed to be read...' section? Or move it down lower in the document and give it a Printing Tips help tip so it's not on the title page? I like the Liberation Sans font. Not so much the Serif. The Sans really goes well with the LibreOffice logo. Can we maybe have the hyperlinks in Liberation Sans as well?

On the Joomla templates page http://www.joomlart.com/demo/#drupal-themes.joomlart.com/jd_purity under Paragraph Styles, it shows some nicely formatted paragraphs for information, cautions, etc. that I think we could adapt and would look great in our documents. Especially the information icon with blue text and maybe add a blue line above and below the information box. It would make those sections of our documents stand out in a professional way.

Ron

I'm mainly a Windows user so I don't know much about fonts on Apple and
Linux systems. Are there specific fonts that are installed on all three
platforms? I'm sure Microsoft's Cambria font wouldn't be installed on a
Linux system, but what about Arial, Times New Roman, or even Georgia?

Be default no... and legally installed I think no. Those are propietary
fonts :frowning: But we have free fonts too :smiley:

BTW, Michael, the PDF looks better, it was the distribution media that
affected legibility :smiley:

Cheers

There is quite often arguements in the Ubuntu community regarding
fonts and the copyright that Microsoft holds for work that is made
using them. I don't think Microsoft would ever think about using this
copyright, yet they still persist with it and do not release their
fonts in an open way. You will find that Arial, TNR and Courier New
are read as 'Liberation Sans', 'Liberation Serif', 'Liberation Mono' ,
in Linux. Not sure about Macx,

The Liberation font set was an outcome of one of these arguements
across multiple communities that had been raging for some time.
I love the fonts, I think they are on par with MS fonts for screen
reading, I haven't really looked at printed typeface with them.

I think we should be using open licence fonts and the following links
are what I believe are the best of the bunch GPL Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(font)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2B_Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Libertine

The document that I sent out was simply a demonstration of what it
could look like.
Being new to the documentation team I don't want to push my views too
far and respect the work that has come before me, it is amazing how
much is there.

I think the larger Documentation team must discuss the numbered
outline before pushing it any further.
Also are we still going to have OOoAuthor trademarks on the
documentation or are we happy to associate the LibreOffice
documentation entirely with 'The Document Foundation' even if some
development is occurring on OOoAuthors?

Le 2010-11-04 21:09, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

============

I think we should be using open licence fonts and the following links
are what I believe are the best of the bunch GPL Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(font)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2B_Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Libertine

============

I believe that the Liberation font family is normally included in any Linux OS. The font was constructed by RedHat as direct replacement to MS primary fonts such as Ariel etc. They are also available for MSWin boxes as downloads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts

Marc

I just installed the Liberation fonts on my computer because they weren't
already installed. I think it would be nice if OpenOffice were to install
these fonts when the program itself was installed. This way everyone who
decided to look at the guides would have the correct fonts installed
automatically.

Hi Jeff:

In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to install rather than have a programme install it for you without your permission. The user should always be in charge.

Are you on a Windows box?

Marc

In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to
install rather than have a programme install it for you without your
permission. The user should always be in charge.

Are you on a Windows box?

I don't understand the "permission" aspect of having LibreOffice install
fonts automatically. If a user is voluntarily installing the program, then
they should accept whatever modifications the program performs. If would be
one thing if LibreOffice was installing a virus--it's simply installing
fonts which provide for a better user experience. It seems like it would
make sense for it to install free, open source fonts, especially if the
documentation is going to use a font other users may not have. We use
OpenOffice exclusively in my organization, and I can honestly tell you not a
single computer (300 of them) has the Liberation fonts installed. If I
wanted to distribute the documentation guide to my coworkers, they would not
be able to view it in its entirety.

And yes, I use Windows exclusively.

Jeff

These are MS licensed fonts, using them in free software manuals would be
suboptimal from a philosophical standpoint..

Deja Vu and Bitstream Vera families are installed by OOo, l presume therefore
libreO does the same.

cheers
GL

I guess it is OK if you have enough faith to let programmes install fonts on their own. It's just that not every computer is the same. Some people enjoy installing many fonts on their own, but I thought there was a maximum amount that you could install on a windows machine, maybe I am wrong. But what if there were and it caused your machine to fail?

IMO there should always be a warning window that will let a user accept or not accept installation of "extras" and that the software should not install any of these without user knowledge and permission.

Marc