Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-10-22

* Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Luke
 
* Completed Action Items:

    + Kendy: Find somebody to transfer articles from redmine wiki to TDF
      [K-J volunteered on the list, thanks so much!]
    + Heiko: File a bug about better description of tooltip (sidebar - spacing).
        + "Increase Spacing" should be "Increase Paragraph Spacing", same for decrease
      [done https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=85340]
    + Heiko, Jay: Come up with a set of questions for the survey wrt. cut / copy / paste.
        + brainstorm at the last meeting: remove all; remove just cut / copy; what
          the users use; what is acceptable; etc.
      [done, and polished during the meeting]
 
* Pending Action Items:
 
    + Samuel: Create an easy hack - describe what tables should be striped,
      and how to do that in the code
    + Jay: Update the Insert field button's icon
      [tried to create a new icon instead of overwriting - unfortunately due
       to the technical reasons it has to be overwritten]
    + Kendy: Dropdown for the line spacing instead of the 3 icons (reuse the sidebar dropdown).
      [done some research, not completely trivial, but doable]    
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
    + fixed some minor problems with existing sifr icons (Jay)
 
* Hiding of cut, copy, paste buttons from writer's standard toolbar (Jay)
 
    + https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=84909
    + Heiko + Jay will come up with a set of questions for the survey, and
      we'll review it at the next meeting
    + presented the blog post draft
    + would like to have screenshots (Kendy)
    + would like to have more options there - remove all copy/cut/paste,
      remove copy/cut + leave paster, leave everything (Kendy)
    + like the idea with the survey - maybe explain that we can come up with additional questions 
if needed (... whatever that may be ;) )(Cor)
    + should be possible to add notes to the survey (Cor)
        + in case there is even another way to achieve the functionality (Cor)
        + we should cover all the options (Heiko)
    + indeed not too complicated - since it's not scientific - we know little
      bout numbers and the public - we must have the room to make our own good
      _interpretation_ of the results. (Cor)
    + do the users understand the paste vs. paste special (Heiko)
    + Conclusion: Reached the wording of the Cut/Copy/Paste question.
    + lovely survey now :) (cor)
AI  + Heiko, Jay: Get the screenshots + publish later this week / early next week.
 
* Hiding of paragraph background (Jay, Heiko)
 
    + Can we have pictures in the blog post? (Kendy)
        + before + after the hiding? (Jay)
        + yes, would be awesome (Heiko, Kendy)
    + Conclusion: Agreed the wording.
 
* Wrench icons (Kendy)
 
    + both properties and styles now use wrench (Kendy)
        + shouldn't we in fact change the icons there some way?
            + no idea what we'd ask in the survey ;-) (Kendy)
    + we should change the icons (Heiko)
    + previously a triangualar ruler - at least in Tango testing (Alex)
        + can see it (Jay)
AI  + Alex, Jay: Brainstorm a bit about a good representation of
      styles / properties
  
* Collecting the user information (Kendy)
 
    + prototype working
    + now it is possible to switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy
        + add that it's anonymous (Cor)
            + please feel free to update the wording, and push to gerrit (Kendy)
            + or give me the better wording to push that (Kendy)
        + and on use of menu and toolbars and such ..(Cor)
            + if this is that it does not track yet from where it was called, then
              yes, this is still not implemented (Kendy)
    + need the server part
        + see what / how Mozilla is doing it
        + hopefully we could re-use the code of the server part?
            + http://blog.mozilla.org/metrics/2011/08/25/do-90-of-people-not-use-ctrlf/
            + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
        + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/testcases/beta/aggregated-data.html
        + server source code? - this is for the web...
            + hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/labs/testpilotweb
            + https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Test_Pilot/ExperimentAPI
        + not much stuff to re-use, sadly
 
* Flipping of icons in LTR (Heiko)
 
    + existing functionality
    + just one icon looks strange when flipped (numbering)
    + just a normal bug, nothing extremely serious
 
* Windows Large Icons (Jay)
 
    + Has code landed to make this possible Kendy?
AI      + Kendy: Push that.
 
* 6 Icon Themes
 
    + is it a good idea, if there is no capacity to even finish such an important icon theme as 
Sifr,
      to have 6 weak themes instead of let's say 3 or 4 good ones?
    + Do we have data on what themes are being used by users? Do users even know how to adjust icon 
themes?
    + Remove old themes
        + Industrial: Seems to be not available in the UI
        + Crystal: Looks like KDE3 - we have Oxygen for the KDE4 look
    + What about the classic theme? (tar.gz file)
    + Make Tango the new base theme instead of Galaxy
    + Tango Classic, as current Tango isn't good with these black icons (Jay)
        + They're certainly much better than the older ones, that had frames and tiny lines
          Don't see the need to create a 3rd (!) duplicate of the Tango theme. (Adolfo)
        + The new dark icons are taken from the Gnome tango icon set
          https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Desktop_icons
          User Comments
            + foersom: Icons in LibreOffice 4.3 looks worse than earlier versions.
              
http://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/2hyz7m/are_small_toolbar_icons_good/cl2o6aa
        + How the tango set looks in 4.3 (dark icons) vs 4.2 (blue and grey icons)
          http://i.imgur.com/WyxQELp.png
          Users on IRC
           mjayfrancis: 4.3 spellcheck icons seem somehow muddier. The rest are mostly an 
improvement
           Chen: visualy ver 4.2 is better then 4.3
        + Image posted on twitter - http://i.imgur.com/4SCQaA0.png - 
https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/524532470138413058/photo/1
           Cor: New, the charactrs in the left 3 are too bold.
           Sophi: new ones, but with less thickness
           DubaiKnight1976: I prefer the old one tbh... new 1 would be fine if its less thick i 
think
           - irc -
           slacka: I'd say the old, but I do like the thicker lines of the new bold, italics, 
underline and 4 alignment icons.
                    I think I'd be fine with the new if the I and II were changed to 1 and 2  
(numbering) and the hollow red arrow was made a solid red arrow  (indent)
                     and really happy if the Abc (spellcheck) was as clear as the old. l and  ll is 
not a good symbel for 1 and 2.  I also think the hollow
                    blue dot might be more clear if it was filled
           ohallot: old
           Papamatti: The new ones are way better than the old ones!
           iplaw67: old. the new are just too unclear, particularly Bold and Italic.
            beluga: the black glossy look on the new icons makes them unclear. the  gloss in 
unneeded as an effect. well from the text alignment onwards  it's readable
            steve_-_: I'd opt for the bottom row. drawback is the first two icons  on the left 
which are hard to see in the new proposal
    + How long will tango_testing still exist? Why hasn't it been merged with Tango already?
        + ~all new icons were moved to https://github.com/libodesign/icons, so it can probably be 
removed (Alex)
        + These should probably be moved into the official Tango icon theme
            + There doesn't seem to be any guideline for how/if new icons are moved into the 
official repo
        + many of them still worth preserving (Jay)
            + let's not remove them (Jay)
            + number of icons in tango_testing that are really good & should go to Tango (Jay)
    + sounds to me as something that would fit a survey too (Kendy)
        + how many questions should we ask? (Heiko)
        + can be a separate survey, you can create an own (Heiko)
    + can try it (Heiko)
    + would be good to have screenshot of the toolbar (Kendy)
AI  + Heiko/Jay: Think of a survey; how to measure which icon sets should we include in the 
installation set?
    + previous studies have shown that the Tango is really good (Heiko)
    + no problem to introduce to one more set (Tango classic), but what goes into the
      installation should be a result of the survey (Kendy)