minutes of ESC call ...

* Present:
    + Hangout: Michael M, Thorsten, Kohei, Joel, Kendy, Andras
    + Phone: Lionel, Cloph, David, Norbert, Caolan
* Completed Action Items:
    + review date / time patches before Monday
        [ in 4.1.1rc1 ]
    + improve configure to avoid versioning mistakes (Cloph)
         [ punted to longer term ]
    + take a look at the gerrit migration (Norbert)
      [ pending Florian's return from Brazil - but database name mismatch found & fixed ]
    + Poke andras wrt. translation updates / README (Cloph)
      [ done, covered, translators double-checked strings ]
AI:   create i18n tool to ensure style issues (also unique fn names) don't recur fdo#67786 (Andras)
    + Impress autoplay feature -> deferred to 4.1.2 (Thorsten)
      [ merge done ]
* Pending Action Items:
    + come up with proposal for what to do about .debs (Rene, Bjoern, Petr)
      [ still waiting, issue perhaps not as bad as thought ]
    + rotate easy hacks on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks (Joel)
      - first demo up from Robinson:
        http://testing.eagleeyet.net/mw/index.php/EasyHacks
      - looking forward to having it integrated.
    + polish & push chrome performance bits to a feature branch (Pierre-Eric)
       ongoing; heard there is a standalone viewer too (great)
      - ongoing, waiting for migration to new vm
    + dig out the URL for GSOC travel funding (Cedric)
      [ on vacation ]
    + upgrade 3.6 users to 4.0.5 once that is out (Thorsten/Kendy)
    + add 'download updates from inside LibO' to GSoC wiki page (Astron)
       [ pending ]
* Release Engineering update (Cloph)
    + 4.0.5 rc1 status
        + already in public testing, announced, on website.
        + Linux build testing appreciated
            + testing appreciated - CentOS print header touch etc.
              (/usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkunixprint.h)
            + what / where is gtkprint used ?
    + 4.0.5 rc2 deadline next monday (12th)
    + 4.1.1 rc1
        + almost done with building, up-load/push coming, announce
          due this evening
    + 4.1.1 rc2 deadline week after monday (19th)
* each patch should be committed with the name of it's author (Michael)
    + important to get the flavour of the individuals to interact with
    + can use signed-off to do that.
AI: + send details to Tsahi (Michael)
* QA update (Joel)
    + Contest result blog
      + http://joelmadero.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/contest-results/
      + prizes being ordered: 5-6 different countries, no problem
        printing T-shirts.
    + MAB handling:
      + by next major release, merge into single list,
        re-visit them as a policy
      + saves a lot of time-consuming work, interacting on the issues.
      + thanks to Tommy for his great work triaging / updating existing.
    + North America QA Pub Chat
      + First ever North America QA call - just US present though, so
        perhaps US chat is more appropriate
      + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/August_02_NA_Pub_Chat
    + Regressions in 4.2
      + Already been mentioned but QA has noticed this - a few nasty ones
        that have already been added to MAB
     [ could it be we suddenly have a dbgutil build ? ]
      + A couple in 4.1 as well that are quite nasty (fdo#67665,
        fdo#67802, etc...)
        
    + problem of not two downloads on the page (Michael)
      + still concern that download page should show only release (Astron)
      + quality - it's poor user-experience to have unexpected bugs (Joel)
         + and work too closing them.
      + Mozilla have optimised downloads, etc. (Astron)
      + Not completely against telling users of early RC's / Betas on
        the download page (Astron)
         + mostly concerned wrt. the lack of hierarchy, and lack of
           labelling: unclear blue vs. green icons etc.
         + yellow bar: help us test the latest version ?
      + user difficulty with two stable branches anyway (Lionel)
      + users willing to help, but don't read PR etc. (Joel)
        + option within the product: 'any updates' -> test latest builds ?
    + Regressions (philosophical, what is it?)
      + confusing for users & QA, iterations around regression/not/etc.
      + concern around twitter comments
      + if not sure - don't add the keyword (Kohei)
        + it decreases the usefulness.
      + no real confusion from QA, 
      + please take the people working on the features seriously (Kohei)
        + if not 100% agreed on that it's a regression
        + some users put it in to get dev's attention.
      + BSA automatically adds it if users say it worked in a previous
        version, can user  (Joel)
        + some - multiple users said; we were used to it => regression
        + others - developers say that's a feature.
      + not a huge gap between QA and dev (Lionel)
        + sometimes - we decide to keep a regression, we're going to keep it
        + seems fine to me (Joel)
          + close as wontfix
        + binfilter - eg. (Lionel)
      + need a solution - wrt. regression vs. something else (Joel)
        + QA - focus is on user-experience: seems like a clear regression
          if users think it is.
        + concern wrt. flow of regression (?)
      + could we move regressions -> enhancement ?
        + for purposeful regressions / ignored until a big patch to fix it comes in.
        + filter these out of the stats (Michael)
        + concerned wrt. limitations of bugzilla design (Kohei)
        + easily to list 'real regressions' - would be awesome - portal needed (Michael)
    + Warnings (Joel)
      + If we know something in particular that a user did is broken or
        limited in the extension they are saving, is it possible to give
        explicit warnings about that particular thing when they try to save?
      + yes - but a big chunk of development work (Michael)
        + patches welcome; need to aggregate issues though.
        
    + encouraging initial USA QA call (Joel)
      + five people from US & two from Europe.
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/page.cgi?id=weekly-bug-summary.html
        +203    -145    (+58 overall)
         many thanks to the top five bug squashers:
          Cor Nouws          12
          tommy27            11
          Jorendc            10
          Lionel Elie Mamane 10
          Urmas               9
    + Prioritization of Bugs (Joel)
      + Currently 150 bugs or so marked as Blocker or Critical
      + During QA Call Friday going to request we comb through these and
        add to MAB as we see fit - might result in spike on MAB list
      + Prioritization is getting substantially better - perhaps time to
        consider using these fields a bit more?
      + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/0/06/Prioritizing_Bugs_Flowchart.jpg
      + don't use priorities at all (Kohei)
        + users randomly change it.
      + understand limitations of bugzilla (Joel)
        + the MAB list is/was a way to overcome these limitations (Michael)
      + difference dev vs. QA processes (Thorsten)
        + but whatever the QA team want to do is of course fine around priority
      + like more detailed choices than most annoying vs. not (Lionel)
        + if users abuse the severity field - can, warn, take measures etc.
        + like wiki vandalism - social proceedures
      + not necessarily a one-size fits all (Norbert)
        + who intervenes in the bug history etc.
      + would be nice to lock a priority / severity once a bugzilla user
        has changed it (Michael)
      + in general not a huge problem: most users don't tweak severity (Joel)
      + really prefer to get a summary of bug reports (Kohei)
        + avoiding misc. user interaction etc.
      + if QA continues to grow & we can prioritise them correctly (Joel)
        + can get the priority & severity accurate & obsolete MAB's etc.
      + everyone wants to get UX best, prioritise bugs right, and not annoy developers
      
    + several Samba issues being reported again
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67769
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67675
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67527
* Suggest make sidebar non-experimental on 4.2 branch (Caolan)
    + should make an effort here; and make it non-experimental
    + what needs doing first ? (Michael)
       + if non-experimental anyway, try to use it ? (Astron)
       + could switch over to new navigator / style window
       + leave the properties dock disabled by default.
       + happy to bin task-pane in favour of sidebar for impress
AI:    + switch to pure sidebar mode in master - but not enabled by default (Caolan)
          + except in impress.
       + get feedback on that (Astron)
       + shouldn't duplicate the functionality by default (Astron)
       + should we keep toolbars, and/or side-pane
AI:    + come up with a proposal on what to do (Astron)
          + value in keeping that as an option for a while (Thorsten)
          + should try to make sidebar
       + can do more crazy stuff when sidebar is enabled if we retain
         the old code (Michael)
       + instead remove the floating versions of gallery / styles / nav (Astron)
         + properties pane, duplicates toolbar eg. ?
    + we need a well thought-through design - cf. AI.
    + reminder - need feedback for the student (Kendy)
       + lots of easy things to fix - appreciated.
* UX input (Astron)
* 4.2 MAB jump (Caolan)
    + programming asserts showing up as crashes, but are not really regressions
      asserts normally compiled out for corner cases
      + did a tinderbox get switched to a dbgutil build ?
    + if running a debug build - can we make a regression ? (Joel)
      + need to compare like with like - a dbgutil vs. a dbgutil or not
      + performance regression bits from that - noticeable (Michael)
    + crashes - should get full debugging info / stack trace (Caolan)
      + see:
        https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/How_to_get_a_backtrace_with_WinDbg
      + with that crash info we can do a great job bug fixing.
* Open 4.2 MAB
        + 7/7 2/2 2/2 1/1
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65675
* Open 4.1 MAB
        + 13/77 8/68 11/64 3/55 7/52 7/48 2/42 4/39 5/37 7/32 3/26 3/23 4/17
           17%  12%  17%   5%   14%  15%
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=60270&hide_resolved=1
* Open 4.0 MAB
        + 32/157 14/138 13/137 12/137 12/135 12/134 12/133 12/132 16/132 14/130 16/129
           20%    10%   9%   9%     9%     9%     9%     9%     12%    11%    13%
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=54157&hide_resolved=1
* Open 3.6 MAB
        + 38/228 60/245 62/244 60/243 62/243 60/241 57/238 63/237 65/236 68/235 67/232
           16%    25%    25%    25%    25%    25%    24%    27%    28%    29%    30%
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=44446&hide_resolved=1
* Bibisected bugs open: whiteboard 'bibsected'
        + 40/134 33/128 33/125 34/124 34/123 36/122 38/119 37/114 39/114
                http://bit.ly/VQfF3Q
* all bugs tagged with 'regression'
    + 324(+23) bugs open of 1849(+48) total
    * ~Component   count net *
            Writer - 98 (+4)
       Spreadsheet - 38 (+8)
       Libreoffice - 36 (+4)
           Crashes - 25 (+1)
          Database - 21 (-2)
           Drawing - 15 (+1)
           Borders - 13 (+0)
         Migration -  4 (+0)
             BASIC -  3 (+1)
        + 
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=regression%2C%20&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&product=LibreOffice&list_id=36764
        + Migration: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=43489&hide_resolved=1

-- 
michael.meeks@suse.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot