Re: [libreoffice-design] "eat our own dog food"

Hi,

Le 04/12/2015 02:03, Heiko Tietze a écrit :
> On Friday 04 December 2015 00:32:29 Michel RENON wrote:
> > So why not create mockups with LO Draw ?
> Nothing against dog food, and of course Draw is a useful tool. But to adopt a
> paintting tool for mockups is like writing code with a text processor. My
> scribbles are done with Balsamiq Mockups, which is a specialized tool. You may
> read [1] on how to use it. There are some similar applications with different
> features and other use cases. But no true usability engineer would apply
> Inkscape for that purpose. It's the same for KDE: only designers do work with
> Krita or Inkscape (BTW: there is a complete kit for desktop applications [2]).
> So what is expected from a mockup tool:
> * interactivity (on click either another page should open or the controls have
> to work as usual),

Today, the mockups are pasted in a gdoc, in pdf or in a wiki page.
So interactivity is not used at all.

If you really need interactivity, why not use Impress ?
Just like Draw, it would be the opportunity to see if it's really a 
powerful tool.
(Few years ago, I read a blog about using Powerpoint to create 
interactive mockups)

> * collaborativity (drafts need to get shared easily),

well, I think that using a std format (svg or odf) is better that a live 
tool based on a proprietary format

> * comprehensive set of control (you don't want to draw buttons every time, and
> those controls should be easy interchangable),

that's where LO would need huge enhancement !
the current gallery would be a rough start, but it would be possible.
Then it would be the opportunity to request enhancements to 
Draw/gallery/impress


> * look and feel like scribbles (pixel-perfect design is misleading),

'scribbles like' is not mandatory, it's just a way to avoid drawing too 
much details.
We can have same results with std drawing objects (std rectangle...)

An example from OpenOffice :
https://wiki.openoffice.org/w/images/9/94/2010-01-17_PrintingDialog_inclStringReview.png

and one I made in few minutes, more than 2 years ago :
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/6/69/Template_manager_mre_v1.jpg

Both are far from pixel-perfect, while being done with Draw.

> * support for layout (arrangement, placement etc.)

Again, this would be an opportunity to enhance Draw/Impress based on 
real usage needs.
First one : live guide to align objects while dragging


> IMHO it makes no sense to enhance Draw for this purpose.

I agree it would remove some comfort, but at the end, we could also tell 
people "hey, we use Draw/Impress every day in the design team and look 
what we create ! So now, you can't say anymore that they are not 
powerful enough", and we would be trusty.


From what I heard about OpenOffice/LibreOffice :
- Writer is powerful, but looks outdated compared to Word
- Calc is clearly behind Excel (tools, ease of use, UI), while being a 
serious software
- Impress is non-existant compared to Powerpoint : buggy, unusable, 
completely outdated, few and uggly clipart, few and uggly templates
- Draw : mixed reviews :
    - so we can draw with LibreOffice ???
    - seems powerful but not easy to discover/use

My personal experience with Impress :
I had to create a simple slideshow : slides with only text with bullets, 
no animations. It was difficult because a list of very annoying details. 
So I clearly say to other people "don't use Impress".

So using LO internally would be a first step to enhance it.
The more we find it difficult, the more we have to enhance it !

Cheers,

Michel

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