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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-10

* Present: Adolfo, Jay, Jonathan, Kendy, Mattias, Stuart

* Completed Action Items:
+ Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like
View -> Sidebar toggle
Pushed to 4.4 branch (as well as to master)
+ Kendy: Check https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86738
[this was pushed after the libreoffice-4-4 branch-off (which
happened on 20th), so this had to be pushed separately to master
and libreoffice-4-4]
[this is incorrect (Jay)]
[then I don't understand the issue :-) - please let's talk it on
the IRC (Kendy)]
+ Kendy: Turn the Crystal icons off by default in configure
+ Stuart: Try to come up with a good color for 'Blue Sky 1'
+ Jay: Change the name "Style" in the context menu to a better
descriptive name for 4.4
+ Mattias: Assign Ctrl+Shift+r to ruler toggle in Writer + Impress +
Draw - master and 4.4.
+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87042
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13326/

* Pending Action Items:

+ Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently
+ Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48622
+ Alex: Gnome 2.20-style 'a' icons & Gnome 3-style text line icons
+ Kendy: try to do a link to the Templates site for 4.4 - not too
+ Jay: Create a blog post to collect templates that we could
[ collected the categories, wrote up 2 paragraph for initial
announcement, awaiting feedback now ]
+ Thursday - feedback + send to the marketing ML
+ Monday / Tuesday - go live with the announcement
+ please feel free to update (Jay)
+ Samuel: Formulas and Navigator should open in the sidebar, not as
a special window
+ Kendy: Research what is needed to do to only disable (not hide)
the formula bar in Calc when Chart component is activated
+ Kendy: Tell Jay how to fiddle with the default position of
toolbars (so that he can tweak the Chart's toolbars)

* Easy Hacks to be filed:

+ Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the
Track changes toolbar when there are tracked changes
+ Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size
+ Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be
duplicated in Draw and Impress
+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258#c2
+ Kendy: Create Easy Hack for the Hi-contrast Sifr
+ Kendy: Adding 1.15 to the drop down list

* GSoC tasks to be filed:

+ Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to
sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog)
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13085/ - proof of concept,
thanks to the hackfest :-)
+ Jay/Kendy: GSoC for application (color) themes.
+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the
various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas
[styles previews in the sidebar etc.]
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
[longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Replace "..." in dialogs with better descriptive names (like
"Browse..." etc.) (Olivier)
+ HIG fixes in many dialogs (Adolfo)
+ Ctrl+Shift+R as toggle for ruler (Mattias)
+ ParaspaceIncrease/Decrease commands in Writer and Calc (Maxim)
+ Sifr updates (Matthias)
+ RGB value of 'Sky blue 1' color (Stuart)
+ Added 'Close Sidebar' command to Sidebar menu (Samuel)
+ Hyperlink dialog, Find & Replace, Manage names are resizable again (Kendy)
+ ...

* Last week's discussions that need a resolution:

+ nothing this week :-)

* Palettes

+ should we update our palette? (Jay)
+ with less colors when it is easy to choose any color now
+ wouldn't that be a problem for interop? (Stuart)
+ no, inside we use the hex codes (Jay, Kendy)
+ can do an update - if you come up with something, just push it to
gerrit (Kendy)
+ and let's just rubber stamp it here in a meeting (Kendy)

* Icon Updates / Issues

+ Sifr

+ Breeze (Jay)
+ https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=123517
+ Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell)
+ LGPL3 now (Jonathan)
+ got students working on the matching icons (Jonathan)
+ hope to get more matches
+ under the Google Code-in (Jonathan)
+ some icons will need custom creations (Jay)
+ probably from scratch
+ Uri doing them, designing new icons (Jay)
+ nice, thanks! :-) (Kendy)
+ using galaxy / tango as the template (Jay)
+ custom LO icons

* KDE5 vclplug

+ working on it
+ when is the next release? (Jonathan)
+ 4.5 in 6 months

* Big unresizable dialogs (Jay)

+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86891

+ actually we shouldn't be afraid of resizable dialogs :-) (Kendy)
+ the guidelines allow that
+ and makes sense for dialogs that can show more information
when resized
+ does not make sense to resize message boxes
+ true for edit boxes - cut off text that you have to scroll
is annoying

+ thought that the resizability is not that useful (Adolfo)
+ but apparently people appreciate the feature (Adolfo)
+ OK to have resizability enabled again (Adolfo)

+ issue was with some of the dialogs for which the size changed (Jay)

+ conclusion: Enable resizability for all the dialogs that contain
edit boxes.
+ going forward: Adolfo will make resizable the dialogs that
behave well + it makes sense for them, will let non-resizable
the rest
+ resizable: dialogs containing edit boxes (to allow user to see
the entire input), list boxes (to allow users see more lines
in the list box), etc.
+ non-resizable: message boxes (static text), dialogs containing
just push buttons, radio buttons, fixed text, combo boxes, etc.

* Templates (Kendy)

+ run a competition (Jay)
+ let's have some good looking templates (Mattias)
+ book, university thesis, reports, scientific article, office
document, probably both modern and classic look of every
one (?), showcase some features (?)...
+ fonts - the templates should use what is in the installation (Kendy)

+ timeline:
+ until Thu - feedback on Jay's proposal
+ on Mon / Tue - announce generally

* New extension site being worked on by @andreaslibo [Andreas Mantke] (Jay)

+ http://amantke.de/blog/2014/12/work-on-new-libreoffice-extensions-site/

+ unfortunately does not contain update to templates ? (Jay)
AI + ask what is the plan with the templates (Jay)

* Single toolbar mode (Jay)

+ came up with 3 different types
+ single toolbar using small icons
+ sidebar oriented single toolbar has also been created
+ single toolbar for those prefering large icons
+ got positive feedback (Jay)
+ maybe would be even good as a default for the full-screen
mode? (Kendy)

+ will have a look what needs to be done from the technical point of
view (Kendy)
+ unfortunately no update since the last week

* Resizable Toolbars (Jay)

+ activating hidden toolbar icons when a user has a larger screen
+ MSO has a similar behaviour at different screen resolutions
with the ribbon UI
+ what is the minimum screen resolution that libreoffice is
+ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution#Computer_monitors
+ ~10% of web users still on 1024x768, apparently (Kendy)
+ ~9% for the last 3 months ;)
http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-resolution-ww-monthly-201408-201410-bar (Jay)

+ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit?usp=sharing
Toolbar entry 4 - "Toolbars should be flexible, so if the window
size is resized or viewed on a smaller screen, lesser used buttons
can be dynamically hidden and icon sizes can be changed (e.g. from
large to small) in order to adapt to the best fit for the user at
that point in time. ..."
+ useful for people that want to resize the application etc. (Jay)

+ has a prototype, need to finish it somehow (Kendy)

* Impress survey (Jay, Heiko)

+ Proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HlcEpH_87y5rRtXt7c-ukWo9Tw64gtcNDSO8dguMhPs
+ survey closed 2014-Dec-03 (Heiko, Jay)
+ evaluation + analysis starts
+ will go through that with Jay (Heiko)
+ analysis done, unfortunately Jay was sick, so not released yet
+ will be done in the next couple of days (Jay)

* Terribly outdated screenshots on www.libreoffice.org (Kendy)

+ http://www.libreoffice.org/discover/screenshots/
+ can do Linux + Windows (Jay)
+ and can talk to Steve for OS X (Jay)
+ if you have any pretty-looking documents, please send them to Jay
+ got some from Mattias
+ Stuart, if you see something in the bugzilla, let Jay know too
please :-) (Kendy)
+ google docs document dumping folder

* Updating Help (Cor)

+ checking the paths for menu, contextmenu and toolbar mentions that
are changed (Cor)
+ has a wikipage with the changes (Jay)
+ would be good to send the link to the document team (Kendy)
AI + send a mail to documentation@global.libreoffice.org with
the wiki page (Jay)
+ the help is compiled (Steve)
+ checking this could be in the Moztrap too? (Steve)
+ Olivier has a meta-bug for help (Jay)
+ focusing on 4.5 now, more changes there than
+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86209#c6
"Have you thought in updating the help files to reflect the
+ unfortunately the menu is tight to how the menus are organized (Stuart)
+ sequence & layout

+ unfortunately help is hard to edit (Kendy)
+ have a plan, but no time to implement, volunteers appreciated (Kendy)
+ need (trivial) searching implemented in JavaScript
+ php help - http://php.net/manual/en/ (Jay)
downloadable version - http://php.net/download-docs.php
+ unfortunately no search :-( (Kendy)
+ ms office online help (Jay)

* Collecting the user information (Kendy)

+ prototype working
+ switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy
+ need the server part
+ Mozilla UITelemetry seems to provide some useful stuff
+ http://bwinton.github.io/d3Experiments/contextmenu.html
+ https://people.mozilla.org/~mfinkle/uitelemetry/
+ need to study that a bit...
+ useful data collection to improve the menus/toolbars/sidebar (Jay)
+ most popular inserted special characters for use in future
drop down
+ most popular bullet/numbering styles for use in future drop
+ location of the click action in the menu, as you can have
duplicates. e.g. Insert > Table and Table > Insert > Table
+ which context menu used. e.g. New Slide in slide pane context
menu or slide view context menu
+ single click, click and hold, drop down click and multi-click.
e.g. single or double click on format painter
+ clicking on the close document/window 'X' (.CloseDoc) and
close application 'X' (.Quit) and from which app its happening
+ opening an app from startup (likely clicking on the
application launcher menu or execute from commandline)
+ opening an app from start center
+ opening an app with a document
+ whether a user used the enter key, mouse click, accelerator to
open a menu item
+ which toolbar they clicked a button in, as some buttons are in
multiple toolbars and users may add a button to a toolbar
+ which slide transition and object animations are used most in
+ action/command sequence - the action they used and then the
next action used. ex. - insert image then add caption
+ menu bar keystroke sequences - e.g. Alt+F + O
+ collecting icon theme, font list, theme name (Jay)

+ where is the file? (Jay)
+ currently just dumped to the stdout (Kendy)
+ ideally should be kept somewhere in the profile (Jay)
AI + yep, let's have it in the file in the profile (Kendy)

+ what about privacy? (Stuart)
+ this not enabled by default (Kendy)
+ should we enable it by default, we must let the user know (Jay, Kendy)
+ currently we are not sending it anywhere anyway, just
the collecting is possible (Kendy)

* Extra-Large (32x32) Icons (Jay)

+ It is possible - http://i.imgur.com/bkbQtzN.png
+ Possibly limit it to the standard and formatting toolbars as
a start, as that is only what most people see
+ Suitable filename for these icons needs to be decided - e.g.
xlc_..., hc_..., xc_..., or /32/insertpagenumber.png
+ Iconsets
+ Tango: 32x32 icons from Original Tango and Gnome Tango icon
sets can easily be gathered for the essential icons,
while others will need to be created. Tango will be the
fallback icon set for all 32px icon themes
+ Sifr: 24x24 svgs can be upscaled to 32x32 by Kendy using his
+ Human: Based on Original Tango with a few new non-Tango orange
colored icons - http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/human-icon-theme
+ Oxygen: 32x32 icons can be pulled from the original icon set
+ Galaxy: As it was designed by OOo, they never made 32x32 icons
+ Others: does anyone care about the others :D
+ Tools > Options
+ Code needs to be implemented so that its selectable (likely by Kendy)
+ It should be automatically activated when the screen resolution
is >= 1440 pixels and the icon set is Tango or Sifr
+ to be discussed
+ Some of the Benefits
+ will benefit the visually impaired (mentioned by iplaw67)
+ icons look clearer on larger screens
+ fills up the large empty space at large screens as the large
22x22 icons take up 960 pixels
1440x900 - 33% empty, 1920x1080 - 50% empty

+ what should be the naming? (Jay)
+ /32/insertpagenumber.png sounds good (Kendy)
+ the same amount of letters as xy_, and gives better idea
what is going on (Kendy)
+ astron - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51733#c8
"Apple use "@2" appended to the image name to mark 192 PPI
images and mixes them in with the rest of the theme. It might
make sense to follow that convention. However, I am not sure
every file system correctly supports the @ character in file
+ mirek - https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/35?r=309#message-309

+ what we show in the UI does not have to be the same as we have in
the images.zip (Kendy)
+ what is the total size of the svgs you can collect (Kendy)
+ it might make sense to have a separate repo just for the icon
sources maybe? (Kendy)
+ seems low - few MB (Jay)
+ for the rendered versions, icon-themes/*/cmd/32/insertpagenumber.png is fine (Kendy)
+ we may consider /lc_* -> /24/* etc. rename at some stage too (Kendy)

+ gnome tango (adwaita) - http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/adwaita-icon-theme/
sizes used per sheet - 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48, 256x256

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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-10V Stuart Foote <VStuart.Foote@utsa.edu>
[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-10Jan-Marek Glogowski <glogow@fbihome.de>
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