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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-11-26

* Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Stuart

* Completed Action Items:

+ Kendy: Sidebar - hide the decks, but keep the sidebar (only the
icons) there.
+ added to release notes
+ Kendy: Create Easy Hack for images.zip layering (if it does not
exist yet)
+ Did it myself in the end, it was not that easy Easy Hack
+ Kendy: Create Easy Hack for downloading additional themes?
+ Not really suitable for an Easy Hack either :-(
+ but this could help (in the long run):
+ Jay: Close bug 86302 as wontfix
+ Jay: Move the Impress & Calc 'Header and Footer' entries to
Insert menu to be consistent

* Pending Action Items:

+ Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to
sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog)
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13085/ - proof of concept,
thanks to the hackfest :-)
+ Kendy: Adjust alignment and spacing in line spacing drop down
+ Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like
View -> Sidebar toggle
+ Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the
Track changes toolbar when there are tracking changes
+ Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently
+ Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size
+ Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be
duplicated in Draw and Impress
+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258#c2
+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the
various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas
[styles previews in the sidebar etc.]
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
[longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
+ Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt.

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Hide the decks but keep the sidebar (only the icons) there (Kendy)
+ opens in Calc in master, but not in 4.4
+ should be done for 4.4 too, as some icons were removed from
the toolbar that are in sidebar only
AI + enable Calc too
+ Image themes layering - the themes do not need to contain all the
icons any more (Kendy)
+ saves installation image size
+ could be folded to Tango
+ Icons are being added but slowly due to long waitings on gerrit
AI + push access for Jay (Kendy)

* Last week's discussions that need a resolution:

+ Shrinking the size of the context menu in Impress (Jay, Cor)
+ we have just to many of them (Jay)
+ does not even fit the screen - 24 entries!
+ some are duplicated in the toolbar (Jay)
+ smaller context menu preferred (Jay)
+ we can do submenus, etc.
+ do we have some indications of that in the 2009 data? (Kendy)
+ will check (Jay)
+ some of that in the sidebar too (Jay)
+ unfortunately we do not have separate stats for images and
objects (Jay)
+ caution needed - we are still introducing the sidebar, need to
make the users comfortable (Stuart)
+ challenge here - not to make users angry :-) (Stuart)
+ better to make functionality easier than document wrong
behavior (Heiko)
+ would be good to have a guideline (Heiko)
+ so far used: if it is in the toolbar, then don't put
it to Context menu (Jay)
+ not that easy unfortunately - for some of the
operations, the users should not move the mouse (Heiko)
+ but toolbar should not contain all the functionality -
only menu is for everything (Heiko)
+ happy with the Jay's approach (Heiko)
+ yes, would be a good thing to have guideline, agree with
Heiko (Jay)
+ will start putting together points (Cor, Heiko, Jay)
+ please do not do it heavy-weight (Kendy)
+ do not want to see it used as a weapon ;-) (Kendy)
+ create a guideline that always allows you to go
ahead :D (Cor)
+ Heiko did these for KDE:
+ https://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Usability/HIG/ContextMenu
+ conclusion: Go ahead with the changes, but carefully
+ check the stats from the 2009, consult the heavy Impress

+ Moving 'Table Boundaries' to the View menu (Jay, Cor)
+ hard to measure this :-) (Kendy)
+ the View menu contains other settings like these, looks
logical to move this one there too (Kendy)
+ agree that it is similar as the View items (Cor)
+ but we have a specific menu for Table (Cor)
+ new users: when they see it in Table menu, they consider that
as a property of tables (Jay)
+ when you click it, by default it looks like doing nothing
(because you have the borders for tables normally) (Jay)
+ in View, it is clearer that it affects just the view, not
the table content (Jay)
+ would the menu a bit more balanced (Kendy)
+ let's do the change in master, and if we see complains, let's
revert (Kendy)
+ I would not change unless there is a clear need, enough
changes and to document and explain..(Cor)
+ concerned, but acceptable (Cor)

* UX-advise fdo#80670, Left arrow moves to previous cell when trying to
edit (Stuart)

+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80670
+ think it should be closed as wontfix, as most apps do the same
thing (Jay)
+ +1 (Cor)
+ agreed (Kendy)
+ function that we always had, not justified for change (Stuart)
+ what is exactly the reason? (Heiko)
+ people typing in lots and lots of data, power users (Kendy)
AI + conclusion: close as wontfix (Stuart)

* Calc survey results published (Heiko, Jay)

+ http://user-prompt.com/results-of-survey-about-libreoffice-calcs-toolbar-configuration/
+ question in the comments: why the formula (tool)bar is not
+ it was never converted from a hard-coded toolbar to a floating
one (Kendy)
+ no real reason to change - it can be hidden and has different
functionality (Cor)
+ but we won't block a code contribution to change it to a
'normal' toolbar (Kendy)
+ reply on blog post written

* Icon Updates / Issues

+ Conflicts in master
+ caused by running optipng on the icons (Kendy)
+ just push your versions

+ Sifr script to generate the icons automatically (Kendy)
+ sent the info to Alex
+ worked
+ best to have it in the GitHub icon repo (Alex)
+ done (Alex)

+ Experiment: full SVG icon theme (Kendy)
+ did not work that well
+ converting through Inkscape is still the way to go (Kendy)

+ Hi-contrast Sifr? (Jay)
AI + code for that is not done yet - do an Easy Hack (Kendy)

+ New lc conditional formatting icons
+ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12598822/conditional-formatting.png
+ Need to choose the most fitting ones
+ Should the future drop down use scor lc icons?
+ probably sc -> no need for a .ui file

+ Gnome 2.20 style 'a' icons & Gnome 3 style text line icons
AI + didn't get around to do it (Alex)
+ strike-through still need an update (Jay)
+ re-exporting with the shadow [half of what is in Gnome] (Jay)

+ Breeze
+ https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=123517
+ Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell)
+ Consider sidebar icons as well (prosmaninho)
+ interesting bug - when the Breeze icon is disabled, it is
barely visible (Jay)

+ Numix designed symbolic icons (Jay)
+ spoke with the lead designer and he (and possibly his team)
would possibly be interested in do it

+ Dark themes (Heiko)
+ Several issues with dark themes
+ providing a default theme with icon sets, primarily symbolic
ones (Jay)
AI + find where these icons are defined, and tell Jay (Kendy)

* Single toolbar mode (Jay)

+ Simple toolbar inspired by Google Docs
+ ah, the idea to provide simple sub-sets of features in toolbar
and menubar (Cor)
+ +1 +1 +1 :) PROVIDED there is a simple on/off for that
presentation, and not default (Cor)
+ heard that idea before (Cor)
+ a question of vision (Heiko)
+ is LibreOffice more a tool for experts who want everything, or
new users with limited needs (Heiko)
+ for lots of people, less is more (Jay)
+ usecase: writer that wants just to type text (Jay)
+ we have the standard design, but can provide the functionality
for others too (Jay)
+ marketing point of view: possible to tweak your UI (Cor)
+ to do a 'competition', and put that into one of more
extensions? (sort of easy) (Cor)
+ don't really want to compete with Google's approach (Heiko)
+ LibreOffice is a powerful package; we should define our
position (Heiko)
+ not dumb down the LibreOffice overall, just possibility to have
that (Cor)
+ would love to have a simplified tool for toolbar editing (Heiko)
+ it is important how you present that (Cor, Heiko)
+ overall an interesting idea, easy to implement from the technical
point of view (Kendy)
+ let's think through that a bit until the next meeting

* Global shortcuts not appearing in menus (Jay)

+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85978
+ no idea (Kendy)

* Impress survey (Jay, Heiko)

+ Proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HlcEpH_87y5rRtXt7c-ukWo9Tw64gtcNDSO8dguMhPs
+ issue with translation to Chinese :-) (Heiko)
+ will start the survey on Friday (Heiko, Jay)
+ please look & comment if you want to make changes

* Underlined letters in drop downs not working (Jay)

+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86678
+ remove lines under letters (Kendy)

* Praises coming in for the design team (Jay)

+ "The design devs did the most work ever for the 4.4 release
because some blockades were finally broken down and they have
a new communication tool where to organize their work."
+ great work, guys, thank you! :-) (Kendy)

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