Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft

Hi Rick,

I'll try and answer your questions in turn;


On 3/14/2011 12:21 PM, Rick Hansson wrote:
> HI,
>
>
> I don't understand the rush to find a "motif".
There is a pressing need to create a motif which can provide a 
supporting visual element to new Designs required by the Design team.
The adoption of a motif will move us away from the mistake of mirroring 
the Document-logo verbatim in all new Design material.
I'm not sure whether you caught the discussion that lead up to the Motif 
task, where much of this was discussed?
The wiki page captures many of the reasons why;
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif

Just personally, I wish people would stop using the word "rush" to 
describe a clearly planned and progressive task.
Rush seems to imply there is no order to this task, when that is clearly 
not the case.
> Brainstorming can be very useful to kickstart ideas, but also wrong when you
> force implementation.
Who is forcing implementation?
- The brainstorming phase was separate to the Design phase, nothing was 
forced.
- Design was held off until after ideas/concepts had been collected.
- The Motif hasn't been finalised yet, so there has been no implementation.
- The Design deadline is still open so there is every chance to 
contribute still to the task.
> Deadlines can also be catalytic. But this timeline exclude many good ideas.
Which good ideas have been excluded Rick? could you mention a specific 
example that has not been acknowledged on the Wiki so that I can add it?
If you are talking about Design ideas, a very open Brainstorming phase 
was undertaken for just this purpose, everyone shared their ideas.
Even now, Design proposals are revealing new ideas. At what point have 
any been excluded?
I have to take exception to such a claim because I've spent a great deal 
of time ensuring that doesn't happen.
And the Wiki page is a collaborative tool, I'm not solely responsible 
for moving items there.
It is easy to refer to this abstract concept that there are many "good 
ideas" not captured by this task. This could be said of EVERY SINGLE 
DESIGN TASK in the history of this list.
If you HAVE a good idea, I have to trust that you'll EXPRESS this good 
idea on this list because it is very hard to read people's minds.

It is fast, yes, but that shouldn't be mistaken for ill-prepared. Steps 
for this task have been clearly communicated to the team.
There is still every chance for input. To wait until everyone on this 
list is ready would result in an endless task. We have to be realistic.
But at the same time, the deadlines have been discussed on this list and 
continue to be.
> This is a big task with small benefit.
Here, I'm afraid we see it quite differently.
This is a small task (short time frame by conventional standard, and not 
very resource-intensive) with a big benefit (it will strengthen the 
brand once adopted and implemented consistently, give non-Design members 
something to base work on, it will provide an additional tool for Design 
members to create works from, it will define a look and feel that can be 
used to identify the project visually, easily).

> I'm afraid we'll end up with a theme or motif that only a few people like. I
> don't want to see spirals, waves, animals… everywhere. And If we start using
> something - I hope it will be used carefully.
A vote will determine this. You may need to trust that any resulting 
Design will indeed be used carefully by the skilled team contributing 
actively to this project.
And because this is an open source project, if you can improve on what 
is being offered, you're encouraged to do so.
The alternative is to either /i) wait/ or /ii) not create a motif/. 
Neither of these is an active solution to the problems we are addressing 
with this task.
> I don't want to be a party pooper. It's exciting to see all ideas. I like
> Christoph's triangles. This has stimulated some creativity. I wish more
> designers will pump up lots of ideas, drafts, mockups.. to the wiki, not
> only on this thread. It's fun to see what people are thinking.
This task is indeed on the wiki, not only on this thread.
I've made sure to link to it with every Email regarding the topic.

I would urge you to contribute proposals to the task rather than suggest 
the task not proceed.
With that mentality, and if we are constantly doubting and delaying each 
other, nothing will get made, nothing will get done.
And there is a lot to do.

> Rick

-Nik

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