Nice to start chatting with you, I heard of you at Libocon via COlomban
you met there and worling with my organization. I am glad if I can help
you working on LO accessibility given the high needed job. For your
info, as a "power user"/tester, I mainly use Linux and I use Libreoffice
latest stable (in Sid on Debian). Hypa uses an older one due to bugs
that COlomban will show you, but the bug tracker mentions most of them,
reported by me and my former colleague.
Le 06/10/2023 à 20:32, Michael Weghorn a écrit :
Hi Daniel and Jason,
thanks a lot for your email mentioning these points and the further input!
Some notes/questions on the individual points follow below.
On 2023-10-05 00:01, Jason White wrote:
On 4/10/23 17:22, Daniel McGrath wrote:
I've just tested this under Linux with Orca, and I can use the screen
reader's review commands to read the dialogue. Starting from the
bottom gives me the character counts (with and without spaces), and
the word count.
Firstly, when bringing up a word count, it's very difficult to see...
for the screen reader to read the word count. Most of the window seems
taken up with a needlessly (to me) long explanation of what word count
does. The only way I've found of hearing the actual word count is to
use insert+b to get NVDA to read the whole dialog box, and the word
count comes right at the end. Little thing I know, but rather
irritating if one is trying to keep tabs on the number of words, and
having to read every time that this shows the word count of the
current selection and the whole document, and that this is
automatically updated as you type. Useful to know once of course, but
annoying to have to hear every single time.
Actually I think something needs to be explained: using screen readers
like Orca or NVDA, we consider as accessible information what may be
reached via the caret, ie. what you can move with tab key or the arrow
keys. Using advanced features to access to the information, eg. object
navigation or flat review, is not optimal. It might work, but not
everybody know it and is it considered as a kind of hack to workaround
The explanation of what word count does is not shown in the dialog, but
set as the accessible description of the dialog.
And when an accessible description is set for a dialog, NVDA announces
that description instead of the dialog content.
NVDA source code for this:
On top of that, the same text was set for both of the buttons, so when
pressing NVDA+B, the text would get announced three times: once as the
accessible description of the dialog at the very beginning, and then
once when each of the buttons is announced.
At least the latter seems wrong, so I've submitted a change to drop that:
One approach to avoid announcing the explanation each time and
announcing the content instead would be dropping the accessible
description for the dialog, since it's still easily possible to get that
info by pressing the "Help" button in the dialog.
I've submitted a change to do that, but am currently waiting for
feedback from the documentation/help team on whether that's OK, since
that would also mean that the text is no longer shown as a tooltip when
extended tips are enabled in the LibreOffice options.
As a potential alternative, if you're primarily interested in the
document word count, that info is more quickly available in the status bar.
NVDA+End will announce it from NVDA 2023.2 on.
(This was implemented in NVDA for LibreOffice in
As a side note, when I tested that just now, I noticed that this needs
another update to work with the current development version of
LibreOffice and to make the functionality work with status bars in
dialogs as well. Pending/Suggested changes:
But as far as I can tell, if you're using NVDA 2023.2 and LibreOffice
7.5 or 7.6, this should work fine.
I think that's a screen reader issue. You should probably report it to
My second point is about automatic spell checking. I find that my
screen reader will only inform me of a spelling error if the cursor
happens to land on the word. I don't know if I can make it any
clearer, but for instance if reading a line back in this email, NVDA
will announce "spelling error" each time it encounters a mis-spelled
word. In LO writer, I will only be told each mis-spelled word when the
cursor is on it. Pretty little thing this, but it would be nice if it
could be corrected.
Unfortunately I am not sure. I Cc Joanmarie Diggs, main Orca developer,
who can confirm or give you technical explanations. DOnt hesitate to
subscribe to the orca mailing list where all the community activity
I think if the screen reader is unable to announce a mismelled word
while speaking the current line or saying all the document, it is
because it does not get the info from the accessibilit tree.
I can reproduce this, e.g. with a paragraph containing this text:
"Hello world, wrrong spelling."
Moving to that paragraph using the cursor up/down key, NVDA announces
"spelling error" when using Word right away, but not for Writer.
I plan to take a look into that, but cannot say yet when I'll get to it.
Cursor routing keys worked for me under Linux with a braille display
and the Orca screen reader when I last used them. It might be a
Windows or NVDA-specific issue.
My third problem is potentially quite important, because if you're
using a braille display, if you prefer to work without speech, which I
often do, it can make editing and proofing quite challenging. Along
the top of a braille display is a row of buttons called 'router keys'.
When pressed, the cursor is moved to that place in the document.
Can you please provide a detailed description of how to reproduce this
issue? (What are the exact steps you're taking? What is the actual
outcome? What is the expected outcome?)
I noticed that NVDA has a braille viewer ("Tools" -> "Braille Viewer")
so tried to reproduce with that, since I don't have any actual hardware.
However, I also don't have any previous experience with this and don't
really know how this is expected to work.
What I did was this:
1) start NVDA (2023.2) and its braille viewer ("Tools" -> "Braille
Viewer"), enable "Hover for cell routing" checkbox
2) start LO Writer
3) type this text: "This is some sample text."
Result: The text and braille equivalent appears in NVDA's braille viewer
4) Hover over one of the braille symbols in the braille viewer (I chose
the one just above the letter "p" in the word "sample", but the
positions in braille and in "plain text" don't seem to match).
The cursor moves to be between the "a" and the "m" in the word "sample".
The same things happens when taking the above steps with Word or
Notepad++ instead of LO Writer, so that looks like it would likely be
But as I said, I have no previous experience with this and don't know
the expected behavior, so would be very helpful for more detailed input
To unsubscribe e-mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Impressum (Legal Info)
: Unless otherwise specified, all text and images
on this website are licensed under the
Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License
This does not include the source code of LibreOffice, which is
licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPLv2
"LibreOffice" and "The Document Foundation" are
registered trademarks of their corresponding registered owners or are
in actual use as trademarks in one or more countries. Their respective
logos and icons are also subject to international copyright laws. Use
thereof is explained in our trademark policy